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 The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?

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dorianmode

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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:26 pm

that's ok Nadja, it was quite an interesting discussion about personalities Smile
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:28 pm

I see your point now Nadja, I agree with your point about them lacking something musically without him.

Nadja wrote:
As to Iggy behaving badly towards his musicians, of course Dave was never just 'Iggy's musician', there was no suggestion of any hierarchy then

Well The Stooges were always Iggy's band. Iggy did come up with the idea and chose the riffs but it was always the whole band that made the sound.

I think kicking out Dave was the first point at which Iggy had acted that way. Both Ron and Scott wanted Dave to stay but Iggy wanted him out, that isn't democratic now is it?

A year or so later Iggy chose James over Ron. Then Bowie over all of them. And hopped from musician to musician till he reformed The Stooges. He's been fairly selfish to musicians, you could call that "trying new things" but he did it in such a nasty way that its hard to forgive.

I applaud Ron and Scott (especially Ron) for letting so much water and the bridge, and Iggy himself for admitting what he did was wrong. Its nice as well that Dave hasn't been forgtten about, they bring him up in interviews quite often. Smile
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dorianmode

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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:02 pm

G, F#, E wrote:
Well The Stooges were always Iggy's band. Iggy did come up with the idea and chose the riffs but it was always the whole band that made the sound.


Just to keep the argument going Twisted Evil
It seems to me that the Ashetons were as much instrumental in creating the Stooges - the IDEA of the Stooges, too - as Iggy. Ron, anyway. Not to argue about who was the most important or who deserves most credit - that type of thing is very tedious and becomes very partisan. But I think the Stooges weren't just 'Iggy's band' any more than they were just Ron or Scott Asheton's band ... or Dave Alexander's. Certainly not to begin with, whatever may have happened in later incarnations.
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:39 pm

In my opinion they were Iggy's band. Iggy made the decisions he was just very lucky that he worked with 3 of the greatest musicians of all time so when he chose riffs, bass lines and beats they were all classics. At the end of the day Iggy started the band, he was the one that said to them about starting a band if it wasn't for him its unlikely something would have happened.

And I'm saying all this as someone who thinks Ron was the greatest out of all of them.
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dorianmode

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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:07 pm

The Ashetons, not to mention Alexander, and Cheatham, who also stuck around with the Stooges subsequently - were the first to form a band off their own bat. Having said that, of course The Dirty Shames were no big deal. As to Iggy's first two bands, apart from the fact that he was a drummer, I'm never sure exactly what kind of role he played in them - what his stature actually was in those bands. All I know is that he seems to have felt rather out of place in The Prime Movers; for a start the rest were older than he was, or something.

The way Ron Asheton tells it, he really was desperate to form a band, a proper band after his momentous England trip. He had to do it some way or another. Of course finally he made the right choice in deciding to form a band with Iggy.

The making of the first two albums, it seems to have been such a collaborative process - all of them working together so closely, pooling ideas for riffs etc., that it seems to me quite inappropriate to think of them as 'Iggy's band' to any extent, then. But whatever the exact nature of their genesis, it's just a good thing that they did all come together of course.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:33 pm

i think G means it was iggys band in that ron would come up with riffs all the time, iggy would choose the best one and 'write' lyrics for them, otherwise it would have been wordless noise rock probly, and they wouldntve gone anywhere, the fact they had a frontman of sorts was what made them a band, or the illusion of a band, then they eventuallly wrote songs etc and became a real band, tighter etc

at least i think thats what Gs gettin at or maybe because iggy was already in two 'proper' 'professional' bands before it

personally i always think of the stooges as the stooges, even up to 1974, theyve already remained the same hardworking detroit sound u'no, and their own sound, that they all created
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:46 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
i think G means it was iggys band in that ron would come up with riffs all the time, iggy would choose the best one and 'write' lyrics for them, otherwise it would have been wordless noise rock probly, and they wouldntve gone anywhere, the fact they had a frontman of sorts was what made them a band, or the illusion of a band, then they eventuallly wrote songs etc and became a real band, tighter etc

Yeah exactly. Iggy made the decisions.
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dorianmode

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PostSubject: Re: The Stooges: Original(ly) Punks?   Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:54 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
the fact they had a frontman of sorts was what made them a band, or the illusion of a band, then they eventuallly wrote songs etc

What made them write songs was so unexpectedly getting signed up and then HAVING to write songs.

But ok, I suppose the point is that the others didn't carry as much authority as did Iggy, overall.
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