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 What if Williamson rejoined?

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larry fine

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PostSubject: What if Williamson rejoined?   Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:21 pm

This topic is spread across a couple of threads.I thought I'd pull it together into one.

It's a pretty far fetched idea to be sure, bit what if...? Several people here make the argument that were that to happen it would not be and so should not be called "The Stooges". I think I would argue that point. The Stooge name is the one that attracts people and commands attention, press, promoters, audiences and cashish. If it happened and they toured as Iggy Pop then those factors would all be lessened. I realize that it's an emotional response and that Ron's death is pretty recent, but would Ron begrudge the band - hell, his brother - from continuing to make money and tour and record at the highest level? Unlikely. Certainly if it were anyone but James Williamson on guitar it would not be The Stooges. But James was one of The Stooges and Iggy and Scott and Steve were and Mike is now, I guess. I say get 'em back together and tour the Raw Power songs and all the never properly recorded tracks from all the bootlegs from 73 and let Watt play Ron's bass parts and keep the show on the road.

Just pipe dreaming on a Sunday morning
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JESUS_LOVES_THE_STOOGES
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:28 pm

I think Iggy and James, and scott, and probley mike will do a tribute show to Ron in Detroit Smile

hope i'm right.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:36 pm

i dunno, i mean surely they should - if they wanted to - continue, and obviously even just for money, i wouldnt and im sure ron wouldnt begrudge them of that

they probly shouldnt be called stooges, just out of respect for Ron, althou they were usualy called Iggy & The Stooges on the recent tours anyway so Iggy Pop wont make much difference, except monetarily i'd imagine

i think, if they want to, they should, obviously, and raw power and later stuff would be amazing to hear

and also if iggy wanted to do it solo i'd support that, always wanted to hear solo stuff but i never wanted it this way

they're confirmed for romania, july, probly out of contractual obligations so maybe we'll know soon enough
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Nadja

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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:25 pm

JESUS_LOVES_THE_STOOGES wrote:
I think Iggy and James, and scott, and probley mike will do a tribute show to Ron in Detroit Smile

hope i'm right.

something of the sort is fairly likely to happen I suppose...altho Williamson lately was saying that he'd only play on a Hall of Fame stint, but obviously things have changed now.
yes, there are all sorts of practical reasons for Iggy et al being called 'the Stooges' again, or 'Iggy and the Stooges' rather...and I know it'd be totally respectful of Ron but it just feels wrong.
It'll be interesting to see how this one pans out.
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:27 pm

This is awfully soon to be talking about this, Ron's death was only weeks ago. Sad

IF (and thats a big if) they decide to tour they are not The Stooges. They can be billed as anything the want as long as it doesn't have they name "Stooges" in it. Ron was the sole consistant member, let me explain:

He was the only Stooge to be at EVERY Stooges gig
He was on all the albums
He was a founding member
He was the creator of the name "The Stooges"

No stuff from "The Stooges", "Fun House", "Skull Ring" or "The Weirdness" should be played. And there should be a dedication to him made at every show.

I would like it if Iggy goes solo that he gave the other members (especially Scott) the oppurtunity to tour with him but I don't know if he would.

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.


Last edited by G, F#, E on Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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dt

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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:03 am

My two (or more) cents:

Obviously I (we) have no influence over the remaining bandmembers, so this is all just conjecture. But as a fan—and I say this a positive thing—I think this would be a great natural ending point for the Stooges, at least in terms of them being a fulltime gigging/recording concern. I’d love to see them release a CD of Ron & Scott’s recent jam material or other things along those lines, Weirdness outtakes or whatever, and perhaps do some shows with a guest guitarist for special events or one-off gigs. But as I see it, the five years they were reunited were more than enough for them to make the essential points…that the band was the shit back in the day, that their legacy snowballed in the meantime, and that they could still bring it live to the end (and if money is a concern, that they got a few good paydays). They got to go out on top, which is great. Really, the only thing they possibly “needed” to do at the end was correct the impression left by The Weirdness with a stronger followup album, but that’s kind of beside the point.

As a lurker, it seems to me like this forum is somewhat split between older fans and pretty young ones. That could be wrong, but the point I’m getting to is that I grew up in the 30-year Stooge layoff, and the truth is they were no less significant then than the are now. If anything, the reunion may have slightly lowered their shooting-star cache a bit, though clearly they had enough street cred to compensate, at least for these 5 years. But unless they were going to really raise their game in terms of their current songwriting, I think the point of the reunion was made.

If the remaining bandmembers want to keep their revenue going, I think they could take more possession of their past recordings and release official versions of some of their bootlegged songs, some live shows, their own box sets, books, films, etc. There’s a lot of money to be made in licensing (not that I think that’s so great, but if it gets to the point where you’re really only playing shows for the income, what’s the difference, plus Iggy has been quoted as saying he basically never turns down licensing requests, so those floodgates are already open, though perhaps not for Scott). They could still do the odd show now and then, big festivals where the pay is high. Of course, doing one show would likely lead to another, and so on. But at some point I think they would begin to genuinely diminish their musical legacy as well as just make the whole thing kind of awkward. (For some reason, I feel like they could get away with playing a few-odd shows with another guitarist as “Iggy & The Stooges,” but not a ton of them, but I don’t know exactly where that line would be drawn. Like I saw a Dead Boys reunion without Stiv and it worked as a one-off deal, but I’m sure the illusion would’ve broken pretty quickly on tour.)

Regarding James Williamson: I think James may have the bug again on some level, in view of his recent media profile, but I also think he’s smart enough (or financially stable enough) not to try to act on it, at least not in that way. It’d be one thing if they were a stand-still blues band, or even Cream or something. Going out there and blasting the old Stooges tunes is kind of tough if you really aren’t feeling it. I’m an enormous James fan and I definitely see him as being part of the Stooges’ official legacy and identity (I don’t really get how people can see it otherwise, I mean, rationally, with much emphasis on the rationally part), but if the band really did want to continue, it would probably make sense to do so around their current framework, for which there might be better options on guitar. There are probably five million guitarists who could walk out there and play Ron’s songs from memory (like the old Chuck Berry thing of having a different band at every stop), whereas James never really did play them even when he was with the band.

To me, it would be cool if the band went on longterm hiatus and then maybe played a show or two when the time was right, something like All Tomorrow’s Parties or whatever. But if the remaining members did want to do a couple of shows someday with a guest guitarist, or that kind of thing, I guess the hype choice among younger guys would be Jack White, but I think J Mascis is the best person out there. I know Iggy seems to dislike him, but Iggy also disliked Mike Watt before he got to know him. J is very talented and has the Stooges’ style in his bones. He’s toured with Scott and Watt too, playing almost the same set list of the recent Stooges show. One negative about J is that the band would be a bit more slanted to the Mascis/Watt vibe and generation, but that’s really it. If anyone doesn’t like J, that’s cool of course, but he really is a great musician, often misunderstood and underestimated just like you-know-who, who happens to be J’s all-time favorite guitarist. Though someone like Jack White may appear to be the heir to that Stooges style, I think J is the one who most really internalized it and applied it toward something new. His guitar playing is very powerful and full of emotion. Again, I don't think J could--or would want to--replace Ron in the band, I just mean if they wanted to do a show like at Coachella or Bonaroo or something.

From the old school, I’d say Wayne Kramer would be an interesting choice, being from the same original scene and all that, a friend of Ron (I assume) and the band, etc. He’d be a better natural fit than one of the 70s punks I think, because Ron did have a pre-punk guitar style.

Well again, this is all just sort of meaningless hypothetical chat. But I got to thinking about it…

dt
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:45 am

thanks for your input dt, and welcome to the board

i dont have alot of time atm so ill come back to stuff, btu for now...

no way should jack white or j mascis replace/play for Ron, both have, esp white, totally different guitar styles, that wouldnt suit stooges, and as u pointed out the mascis- watt hting might cause concern, ro at least take away

wayne kramer wouldnt be much good (in that situation) either

i think the only thing, i think, ifrst of all, that the Ron stuff is gone, thats it, no more unless they can find someone who can play ''like'' that, not someone who can just play it, but someone who can play ''like" that u'no, the groove, who had detroit in them, the sotoges in them, their bones

atm, all i can see is - and even it is highly unlikely, is an iggy solo tour MAYBE and definitely NO williamson

he has made good as a 'straight' and is doing well (as seen in another thread) at Sony, he may do one show out of respect for Ron or to show appreciation, but i cant imagine him playing Rons stuff, so thats out

he wont tour though, defniitley

and it'll be a while before iggy tours, but most likely it'll be stooges

and the one thing we're all forgetting about is stooge may have confirmed some dates for later in the year and have been paid possibly for it, and contractual obligations apply, so what do they do? the b'estfest thing in Romania has been confirmed - as Iggy Pop, so what does that mean?

i think its far from our choice, but if anything its guna be solo iggy for another couple years, if he even feels like it, and this was quite a blow to him, let alone us
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Donald



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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:34 pm

It's an interesting idea, I can't see James going for a full blown reunion but then again stranger things have happened.
I don't know how a tribute to Ron could work if they didn't play anything off Fun House etc. but I think the Raw Power stuff would sound better.
They would obviously be called Iggy and the Stooges if it did happen as that is what they have been touring as and to be honest it was Iggy's band, not Ron's, and they would do what Iggy wanted.
If they went ahead without James, J Mascis would get my vote. I thought he was good with AAM&W when I saw them.
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:29 pm

I don't think Scott will do it.

My short interview with James is in the new MOJO, which is out in the UK today.

He says he wanted to play one of RON's songs at the Rock and Roll hall Of Fame. He was very shocked at ROn's death, and spoke to Iggy for the first time in years.

I think they will do something, although as he said before, I can't see them going on tour.
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dt

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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:03 pm

Yeah, James has been very steady in terms of stating what he's interested in doing, which is basically a HOF type appearance. Now it would be more of a tribute to Ron, but that's what he's long maintained.

BTW, all I was really trying to say is that this seemed like a good moment to effectively retire, since it would be somewhat messy, even by Stooges standards, to try to keep going at this point (plus, I do think Iggy was slowing down toward the end). The guitar player suggestions were just an afterthought. It seems like they'll eventually play a gig or two at some point because it seems like everyone eventually plays at some point. I was just thinking of the guitarists who might work with them in an event other than a HOF event with James. Obviously, there's a lot of guitarists who know those Stooges songs by heart, so they won't be lacking in options.
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:09 pm

You'd think some of Iggy's solo guitarists over the years would be familiar with Stooges riffs but I was usually pretty disappointed by them. Whitey didn't have a clue.
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:17 pm

Like it said in the official statement, Ron is irreplaceable.


Last edited by G, F#, E on Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:25 pm

dt wrote:

. I’m an enormous James fan and I definitely see him as being part of the Stooges’ official legacy and identity (I don’t really get how people can see it otherwise, I mean, rationally, with much emphasis on the rationally part),
dt

I don't think any real Stooges fan disregards James in any way. It's just that Ron's guitar was more special to some.
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:27 pm

I don't disregard James at all. Its just that like I said, Ron was the sole consistant Stooges member. Smile
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Donald



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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:08 pm

G, F#, E wrote:
I don't disregard James at all. Its just that like I said, Ron was the sole consistant Stooges member. Smile

I don't see what you mean. When was Ron a Stooge when Iggy and Scott weren't?
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:10 pm

I say sole CONSISTANT member, like Scott and Iggy he was on every album but unlike them he was at all of the shows The Stooges played.
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:27 pm

Donald, I liked Whitey on lots of Iggy's solo tracks, but not so much on the stooges tracks, but when Iggy found Whitey, all Whitey played was Metal, and stuff like the scorpions. So, that may have had something to do with it, since Whitey didn't know any Iggy songs.

Cheers !
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:54 pm

Paul T wrote:
I don't think Scott will do it.

My short interview with James is in the new MOJO, which is out in the UK today.

He says he wanted to play one of RON's songs at the Rock and Roll hall Of Fame. He was very shocked at ROn's death, and spoke to Iggy for the first time in years.

I think they will do something, although as he said before, I can't see them going on tour.

Thanks for the info, Paul!
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:55 pm

G, F#, E wrote:
I say sole CONSISTANT member, like Scott and Iggy he was on every album but unlike them he was at all of the shows The Stooges played.

That's a terrible point... There is no Stooges gig without Iggy and Scott. Ok, he played anyway, but that doesn't make it a Stooges gig!

Anyway, seems like I am one of the only one’s on this board that actually have ‘Raw Power’ as my Favourite Record Instead of ‘Funhouse’! I wish that more of those era songs were properly recorded, Instead of the 71 stuff you guys are talking on and on about. Just imagine "Open up and bleed", that's a classic that's never been a classic.

…Anyway, back to the topic, I think Iggy should tour under his Iggy Pop banner now... And I think it would be great if James joined in and played a few gigs with them (Scott, Ig)!
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:04 am

world's forgotten boy wrote:
That's a terrible point... There is no Stooges gig without Iggy and Scott. Ok, he played anyway, but that doesn't make it a Stooges gig!

What about the gig where Steve MacKay played drums or the 1971 gig where Iggy didn't show up so somebody from the audience performed instead?

Quote :
Anyway, seems like I am one of the only one’s on this board that actually have ‘Raw Power’ as my Favourite Record Instead of ‘Funhouse’!


On the whole "Raw Power" is a far more popular album and theres just as many people on this board that like it to "Fun House". Theres very few people who think the first record is the best. They're all classics though.
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Nadja

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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:10 am

world's forgotten boy wrote:
[Anyway, seems like I am one of the only one’s on this board that actually have ‘Raw Power’ as my Favourite Record Instead of ‘Funhouse’!

nope, Fun House isn't my favourite either. The debut album is.
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:41 am

The 1st album is also my favorite.
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world's forgotten boy

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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:27 am

G, F#, E wrote:
What about the gig where Steve MacKay played drums or the 1971 gig where Iggy didn't show up so somebody from the audience performed instead?

On the whole "Raw Power" is a far more popular album and theres just as many people on this board that like it to "Fun House". Theres very few people who think the first record is the best. They're all classics though.

Yeah, it's still not a Stooges show, when there's no Iggy. So I don't know what you're trying to tell me here. And what about the shows Ron, Scott and Watt did before the reunion, are those Stooges shows also then?

I don't think 'Raw Power' is far more popular. I think 'Funhouse' is the most popular one... But I think it depends on which country you come from. In Scandinavia and Finland for example I think 'Raw Power' And 'Kill City' more than the debut and 'Fun House'… Not Saying that ‘Kill City’ is a Stooges album, but it might as well been released as it. (with those left over Stooge tracks that appears on it)… And in America and Britain I think ‘Funhouse’ is more popular.

This is turning into a strange discussion! Razz
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:04 am

The more I think about it, the more I want the Stooges to end with Ron's death. At this point I just don't see a Sony executive and/or one of Tom Petty's sidemen stepping in and filling Ron's shoes.

'O Solo Mio' is hands-down the best song by the reformed Stooges and a perfect capstone to the legacy. Lyrically it has become really resonant over the last few weeks and is a great example of the finely-woven (yet brutal) mondo-distorto godhead that I've come to associate with Mr. Asheton. Release it as a tribute single to Ron and let the greatest rock n' roll band of all time rest in peace.
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PostSubject: Re: What if Williamson rejoined?   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:05 am

Williamson didn't touch a guitar since the early 80's... I doubt he can go back to form. Ron never stopped playing, and his played was even better with age. Let it rest. Williamson is the graveyeard.
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