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 Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?

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mark



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PostSubject: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:32 pm

OK, so let's say I want to own everything officially released by The Stooges. I've got the 2CDs of The Stooges and Funhouse, both versions of Raw Power, and Heavy Liquid, and I'm ready to move on to the murky world of the Bomp and Revenge stuff. Which ones do I actually need?

Obviously Heavy Liquid has mopped up quite a lot of the stuff from these releases, so a few of them must now be obsolete. As to what's left, both labels' releases seem so chaotic and badly annotated I truly don't know where to start. I found a list of the Revenge releases here and the Bomp stuff here. Any suggestions?
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Lucas



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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:41 pm

Metallic KO is a must have
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Donald



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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:43 pm

You might want the Complete Fun House Sessions.
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:27 pm

Yep, Funhouse sessions definitely.

But in a nutshell, my question is this - which Revenge / Bomp releases contain stuff that isn't available elsewhere?
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:13 pm

You definitely want Live in LA 73 on Snapper or Live at the Whisky on revenge - they're both the same 16th September 1973 show. Snapper has an extra version of Heavy Liquid on it from another date. This night has much better sound quality than the Whisky gig on Heavy Liquid and better performances.

I'd also say for live stuff California Bleeding on Bomp is excellent, It's got the only known version of Johanna played live - and probably the best quality of all the Whisky recordings.

I'd say these two disks are much better than what's on Double Danger (Bomp).
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:23 am

Well, I don't have all of these, but it's a question I have asked many times. Here's what I can say.

The Bomp releases that remain in the realm of completist are:

California Bleeding (two Whisky shows with stuff not available elsewhere on cd)

Double Danger (two live shows, one mastered at the wrong speed, but otherwise not on cd elsewhere)

Wild Love (a bunch of rehearsal recordings that are somewhat duplicated by the Revenge stuff, but not totally)

Rough Power (for obvious reasons, and I just found out that the 10" vinyl has stuff not on the cd, those bastards)

Michigan Palace (I found this to be better sound than the bonus disc that came with Metallic KO)

I don't own Open Up and Bleed, but I suspect that most of this has been put out on the one disc of Heavy Liquid, as I suspect most of Year of the Iguana has as well. I don't own the I Got A Right cd, but I'm hoping they got all of them on the HL disc.

As for the Revenge stuff, the only one I own is My Girl Hates my Heroin, and I haven't bothered to A/B it with HL to see what overlaps. I can't tell you about Open Up and Bleed or Til The End of the Night, but if someone else can please let us know.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:28 pm

Thanks very much, now we're getting somewhere!

This page would be really useful, except for the fact he appears to have given up on it before Heavy Liquid and Wild Love.

OK, I've ploughed through that Japanese web page, xref'd it with Bomp's page, taken out all the stuff that's obviously on Heavy Liquid or is a blatant rehash of other releases, and this is what I've ended up with....

Metallic KO (the recent Jungle reissue) has Rich Bitch, Cock in My Pocket and Louie Louie from the final Michigan Palace show, in the best available quality - Marc Zermatti's original mixes, remastered and speed corrected.

(I Got) Nothing (Skydog) is probably the best place to get the other three songs from the final show - Gimme Danger, Heavy Liquid and I Got Nothin'.

Gimme Danger (Revenge) has the same 3 tracks as above, plus Dynamite Boogie from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' rehearsal tape.

Metallic 2 X KO (Skydog) and Michigan Palace (Bomp) have the same 6 tracks from Michigan Palace 731006. Metallic 2 x KO also has four tracks from the final Michigan Palace show as above - I Got Nothin, Rich Bitch, Cock in My Pocket and Louie Louie. These possibly include longer between-song chat sections than the original Metallic KO/(I Got) Nothing releases?

Metallic KO (the 1999 version on Jungle/Munster) has the same Michigan Palace 731006 show as above, and all 6 extant tracks from the final show, although apparently in an inferior mix to any of the above versions.

Rubber Legs (New Rose/Fan Club/Century) has Gimme Danger and I Need Somebody from St Louis American Theater 730818

California Bleeding (Bomp), as mentioned, has unique stuff from Whiskey A Go Go 730915 and 730917

Live at the Whiskey A Go Go (Revenge) and Live in LA 73 (Snapper) both have the same 730916 Whiskey set. The latter has a (unique? or same as on the HL box?) extra version of Heavy Liquid

Double Danger (Bomp) has full sets from Brooklyn Academy of Music (731231) and Baltimore Latin Casino 7311xx, both unavailable elsewhere. (The Brooklyn show is sourced from the boot LP 'Night of the Iguana'. Allegedly there is another boot version of this show which has an extra version of Head On, the correct running order and no dubbed audience noise)

My Girl Hates My Heroin (Revenge) has Stooges mixes of Death Trip and Gimme Danger, plus a different (LA/Detroit?) rehearsal recording of My Girl Hates My Heroin

Year of the Iguana has Stooges mixes of Death Trip (same as above) and a unique (CBS/Detroit/LA?) version of Rubber Legs.

Raw Power (Revenge) has Purple Haze and I'm Waiting for the Man - from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' rehearsal tape. It also appears to have another mix of Raw Power, same as the Year of the Iguana one.

Till the End of the Night (Revenge) has a unique (LA/Detroit?) version of Open Up & Bleed.

Wild Love (Bomp) has unique versions of Wild Love, I Come From Nowhere and Mellow Down Easy (Detroit rehearsals), I'm So Glad/Ballad of Hollis Brown/I'm a Man/Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever/Look So Sweet/Move Ass Baby (Iggy & unknown guitarist tape), plus Pin Point Eyes and Hey Baby same as Heavy Liquid.

A Million in Prizes: The Anthology, I Got A Right (Bomp), The Year of the Iguana (Bomp), I'm Sick of You (Line/original Bomp LP version) and probably lots of other releases besides, have the original mixes of I Got a Right and Gimme Some Skin that were excluded from Heavy Liquid. (Awaiting confirmation that these mixes are indeed all the same).

I'm Sick of You (Line/original Bomp LP version) and Jesus Loves the Stooges (Bomp) have the vocal version of Jesus Loves the Stooges


Last edited by mark on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:52 pm; edited 13 times in total
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:51 am

mark wrote:

This page would be really useful, except for the fact he appears to have given up on it before Heavy Liquid and Wild Love.
I also don't think it's completely accurate.

mark wrote:
It looks as if all the Detroit/LA/CBS rehearsal stuff is included on Heavy Liquid, would that be right?
Disc 3 doesn't contain anywhere near all the Detroit Rehearsal stuff as there are multiple versions of many of the songs. I keep hoping that some day someone will package them all together in one nice boxed set. As it is those that are available are spread over multiple Bomp and Revenge releases with a lot of duplication.

If you're a completist, I think you need "My Girl Hates My Heroin". I don't think the title track is the same as any of the versions titled "Wild Love" for starters. I think you also need "Till The End Of The Night", as I don't think that version of "Open Up And Bleed" appears on any Bomp release or Heavy Liquid.

mark wrote:
Gimme Danger (Revenge) has 3 tracks (Gimme Danger/Open Up & Bleed/Heavy Liquid) from the final Michigan Palace show not on the Skydog Metallic KO, plus a unique (rehearsal?) track called Dynamite Boogie
I don't think you need this one. The live stuff is on the full Metallic KO and "Dynamite Boogie" isn't the Stooges, but from the supposed Iggy & James Williamson rehearsal tape.

mark wrote:
Iggy Pop Vol 2 and 3 (Primevil - bootleg?) has 3 unique tracks from St Louis 730813
Yes these were bootlegs.

mark wrote:
Open Up and Bleed (Bomp) and Head On (Dead Quick Music - UK compilation) have three tracks from Baltimore 7306xx
These three tracks are on Double Danger. I'm fairly sure you don't need this one.

mark wrote:
I Got Nothin' (Revenge) has 3 tracks from an unidentified 7312xx show
If these are Latin Casino, Baltimore, they'll be on Double Danger.

mark wrote:
Open Up and Bleed (Revenge) has I'm A Man and I'm So Glad - are these the same as on Wild Love?
Almost certainly, and again these are not Stooges tracks, but from the same tape as "Dynamite Boogie" I think. (This tape must date from after Bowie's "The Jean Genie" as Iggy quotes it in "I'm A Man".)

mark wrote:
Raw Power (Revenge) has Purple Haze and I'm Waiting for the Man - from where? Another rehearsal?
See above.

mark wrote:
Does the Wild Love CD give any indication of where and when the material contained therein is from?
Not an accurate one! Again I think a lot of it is actually from the same non-Stooges rehearsal tape, but I think a couple of the actual Stooges tracks are versions not found elsewhere.

Hope this helps,

Andrew
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:15 am

Nobody mentioned Year Of The Iguana???

Perfectly recorded "Johanna", without the corny sax, for one...
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:23 am

I think "Johanna" on Year Of The Iguana is a Kill City Out-take, so not actually Stooges.

- But "Rubber Legs", at least, is different on this CD to those on Heavy LIquid, so you'd need this one as well.

Andrew
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:34 pm

citizensmurf wrote:
I don't own the I Got A Right cd, but I'm hoping they got all of them on the HL disc.

Actually, I believe HL lacks the final 'single' mixes of I Got A Right and Gimme Some Skin.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:59 pm

Loose1969 wrote:


Perfectly recorded "Johanna", without the corny sax, for one...

Not sure just which version of 'Johanna' I've got Laughing but it sure as hell doesn't have a corny sax cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:52 am

Thanks everyone, especially Andrew. I've updated my long post above with the extra info.

Can anyone clear up any of the following?

- Are the tracks from the final show included on Gimme Danger (Revenge) the original Marc Zermatti mixes that are allegedly superior to the versions on the Jungle/Munster releases of Metallic KO?

- Are the 7312xx tracks on I Got Nothin' (Revenge) the same as Double Danger?

- On Wild Love, is there any indication of where Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever/Look So Sweet/Mellow Down Easy/Move Ass Baby are from - ie are they full band or from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' tape?. Also, are the versions of Wild Love/Pin Point Eyes/Hey Baby on there the same as Heavy Liquid?

- Which releases have the final mixes of I Got a Right / Gimme Some Skin? Are they on the Easy Action 'Extended Play' thing?


Cool, nearly there now.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:10 pm

mark wrote:
- Are the 7312xx tracks on I Got Nothin' (Revenge) the same as Double Danger?

Just re-discovered I have I Got Nothin' on vinyl, and yes they are from the Double Danger Latin Casino gig.

mark wrote:
- On Wild Love, is there any indication of where Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever/Look So Sweet/Mellow Down Easy/Move Ass Baby are from - ie are they full band or from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' tape?. Also, are the versions of Wild Love/Pin Point Eyes/Hey Baby on there the same as Heavy Liquid?

Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever are listed as coming from a 30-minute jam, and definitely sound like they're from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' tape, as do Look So Sweet and Move Ass Baby. Mellow Down Easy however is a band instrumental that appears on one of the Detroit Rehearsal tapes - I know 'cos I have a copy of the tape. Wild Love is different to HL and unique to this disk, I think (The sleeve notes claim there are at least 9 versions of this song.) Pinpoint Eyes and Hey Baby are the same as HL.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:07 pm

andrew wrote:
'Iggy & unknown guitarist'

Is there any possible 'secret' info, maybe rumours, who could have been that 'unknown guitarist'?
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:34 pm

andrew wrote:
I think "Johanna" on Year Of The Iguana is a Kill City Out-take, so not actually Stooges.

- But "Rubber Legs", at least, is different on this CD to those on Heavy LIquid, so you'd need this one as well.

Andrew

Both good points. Yeah, I forgot about "Johanna" being a Kill City tune. Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:11 pm

JamesWilliamson82 wrote:
andrew wrote:
'Iggy & unknown guitarist'

Is there any possible 'secret' info, maybe rumours, who could have been that 'unknown guitarist'?
Could be Tornado Turner, who briefly replaced James in the Stooges for one gig in Spring '73. Maybe even Scotty Thurston?
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:48 pm

mark wrote:
JamesWilliamson82 wrote:
andrew wrote:
'Iggy & unknown guitarist'

Is there any possible 'secret' info, maybe rumours, who could have been that 'unknown guitarist'?
Could be Tornado Turner, who briefly replaced James in the Stooges for one gig in Spring '73. Maybe even Scotty Thurston?

Sounds more like Tornado Turner could have been that guy. Cuz if it had been Scotty Thurston, I suppose he would have replaced James at this Spring gig in 1973 then. Maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:32 pm

It would make sense for it to be TT. But then, if the tape is from that timeframe, why are they mucking about with cover versions instead of working out the Stooges set?
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:48 pm

mark wrote:
It would make sense for it to be TT. But then, if the tape is from that timeframe, why are they mucking about with cover versions instead of working out the Stooges set?


Maybe Iggy wanted to check out how the style of 'unknown guitarist'. You know, how he deals with covers, songwriting, improvising, soloing, etc. His playing in general. This kinda stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:41 pm

andrew wrote:
mark wrote:
- Are the 7312xx tracks on I Got Nothin' (Revenge) the same as Double Danger?

Just re-discovered I have I Got Nothin' on vinyl, and yes they are from the Double Danger Latin Casino gig.

mark wrote:
- On Wild Love, is there any indication of where Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever/Look So Sweet/Mellow Down Easy/Move Ass Baby are from - ie are they full band or from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' tape?. Also, are the versions of Wild Love/Pin Point Eyes/Hey Baby on there the same as Heavy Liquid?

Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever are listed as coming from a 30-minute jam, and definitely sound like they're from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' tape, as do Look So Sweet and Move Ass Baby. Mellow Down Easy however is a band instrumental that appears on one of the Detroit Rehearsal tapes - I know 'cos I have a copy of the tape. Wild Love is different to HL and unique to this disk, I think (The sleeve notes claim there are at least 9 versions of this song.) Pinpoint Eyes and Hey Baby are the same as HL.
Brilliant stuff, thanks again Andrew.

In summary, it looks like gig-wise, we have seven shows spread across four essential releases (ignoring any messing about that may or may not be necessary to get the best-sounding version of the final show) - California Bleeding, Live In LA 73, Metallic 2 X KO and Double Danger. And then various scraps of Detroit rehearsals, the unknown guitarist tape and Raw Power alts across Gimme Danger, My Girl Hates My Heroin, Year of the Iguana, Raw Power, Till the End of the Night and Wild Love.

Can anyone answer these last couple of questions?

1) Are the tracks from the final show included on Gimme Danger (Revenge) the original Marc Zermatti mixes that are allegedly superior to the versions on the Jungle/Munster releases of Metallic KO?

2) Which releases have the final mixes of I Got a Right / Gimme Some Skin? Are they on the Easy Action 'Extended Play' thing?

Nice to get to the bottom of all this, it looked completely unfathomable on first glance.


Last edited by mark on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:43 pm

JamesWilliamson82 wrote:
mark wrote:
It would make sense for it to be TT. But then, if the tape is from that timeframe, why are they mucking about with cover versions instead of working out the Stooges set?

Maybe Iggy wanted to check out how the style of 'unknown guitarist'. You know, how he deals with covers, songwriting, improvising, soloing, etc. His playing in general. This kinda stuff.
Very true!
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:21 am

mark wrote:

2) Which releases have the final mixes of I Got a Right / Gimme Some Skin? Are they on the Easy Action 'Extended Play' thing?

No they do not appear on"Extended Play" it has a very echoey (not as good) version of "I Got A Right" originally mixed for a T.V. advert, a rough version of "Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell" called "Hard To Beat" and a version of "Head On".

The final versions of "I Got A Right" and "Gimme Some Skin" are on the Bomp release "I Got A Right" which contains versions of the song which aren't on the "Heavy Liquid" box-set.

The final mixes are also on the "I Got A Right" single released in 1977 and several times after that.
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:59 am

G, F#, E wrote:
The final versions of "I Got A Right" and "Gimme Some Skin" are on the Bomp release "I Got A Right" which contains versions of the song which aren't on the "Heavy Liquid" box-set.

The final mixes are also on the "I Got A Right" single released in 1977 and several times after that.

I'm not too good on comparing mixes but I think these may be the same as the ones on Year Of The Iguana, which would probably save getting the I Got A Right CD if so. There are also the versions on the Sick Of You album, which I haven't checked, but you'd need this anyway if you want the vocal version of Jesus Loves The Stooges.

Perhaps someone else fancies a shot at comparing versions & mixes of I Got A Right & Give Me Some Skin, and also the mixes of the Gimme Danger stuff? (I wouldn't be surprised if the tracks on the latter weren't lifted straight from the rare Skydog releases they originally appeared on.)

I haven't yet checked the various versions of Raw Power to see whether the one on the EP of that name is duplicated elsewhere - I suspect it is, though. I suspect if you just want Stooges stuff, the only Revenge releases you need are My Girl Hates My Heroin, Till The End Of The Night and Live At The Whisky A Go Go.

Incidentally, I don't have the Snapper release Live in LA 73, but if the bonus version of Heavy Liquid on there is the same as the one on Bomp's Open Up And Bleed it is from the Whisky gig on HL.

Andrew
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PostSubject: Re: Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?   Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:45 pm

Thanks once more to Andrew and G, F#, E.

andrew wrote:
G, F#, E wrote:
The final versions of "I Got A Right" and "Gimme Some Skin" are on the Bomp release "I Got A Right" which contains versions of the song which aren't on the "Heavy Liquid" box-set.

The final mixes are also on the "I Got A Right" single released in 1977 and several times after that.

I'm not too good on comparing mixes but I think these may be the same as the ones on Year Of The Iguana, which would probably save getting the I Got A Right CD if so.
OK, I'm currently downloading versions of those two tracks from a variety of releases from Soulseek (for research purposes only, you understand). I have a slow and shitty internet connection so it may take a while, but I will report back with my findings.
Quote :
There are also the versions on the Sick Of You album, which I haven't checked, but you'd need this anyway if you want the vocal version of Jesus Loves The Stooges.
OK, now I'm confused! The Bomp site says the Sick of You album contains the following:

I'm Sick of You (demo) / Tight Pants (demo)/Scene of the Crime (demo) / Shake Appeal / Tight Pants (live San Diego, 1978) / Winners & Losers/Scene of the Crime (live New York, l986) / I'm Sick of You (live Cambridge, 1993) / Shake Appeal/Tight Pants (live Detroit, 1980) / I'm Sick of You (live Los Angeles, 1993).

No I Got a Right, Gimme Some Skin or Jesus Loves the Stooges... is there another I'm Sick of You album somewhere?

So the list of questions has grown again....

1) Are the tracks from the final show included on Gimme Danger (Revenge) the original Marc Zermatti mixes that are allegedly superior to the versions on the Jungle/Munster releases of Metallic KO?

2) Which releases have the final mixes of I Got a Right / Gimme Some Skin, or in fact any versions that differ from what's on Heavy Liquid/Extended Play?

3) Where is the vocal version of Jesus Loves the Stooges?

4) Is the track Heavy Liquid on the Snapper Live In LA 73 the same as the version on Bomp's Open Up & Bleed / Easy Action's Heavy Liquid?
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