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 Anyone even notice this?

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mark



Number of posts : 221
Location : Beatin' my brains with Luther Vandross
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:18 pm

Just listening on Spotify now. It's pretty obvious that about half the tracks on this compilation (I'm a Man, Open Up and Bleed, Johanna, Head On and others) have been overdubbed by an anonymous session drummer, or possibly even a drum machine. Absolutely horrible, unless Head On made to sound like ZZ Top is something you think you need in your life.

Cleopatra have a history of doing this. About 10 years ago they got hold of some unreleased material by Steve Took from the early '70s, a mixture of solo acoustic and Stoogey band stuff, ruined it by smearing a load of fucking awful and inappropriate '90s ambient electronica over the tracks, then tried to pass it off as a long-lost Syd Barrett collaboration. They are the lowest of the low in my eyes.
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freemind

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:55 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
i cant remember if i've already posted this, but for those living in the UK and i think some parts of Europe, you can listen to the whole album for free on Spotify

Woot just great. Thank you for Spotify now I can finaly hear the whole album. Smile
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:34 pm

"More Power" is being released on CD mid-July, maybe the sleeve notes will have the details.
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:01 pm

Cleopatra also released "Search and Destroy" anyone know, does this issue sound over-dubbed?

Track List:
1. Search & Destroy
2. Raw Power
3. Gimme Danger
4. Open Up And Bleed
5. How It Hurts
6. Death Trip
7. Rubber Legs
8. I’m A Man
9. Johanna
10. I’m So Glad
11. Cock In My Pocket
12. She Creatures Of The Hollywood Hills
13. Born In A Trailer
14. Till The End Of The Night

Iggy & The Stooges
Search & Destroy
• An ultra rare collection of studio out-takes from punk icon Iggy Pop!

• These lo-fi recordings have been digitally remastered to bring out every nuance and all the power Iggy & The Stooges showcased on their brilliant studio albums!

• Iggy’s most recent release has many critics claiming him as the sole bearer of true punk rock music and this incredible compilation shows why!

• Not just for collector’s but for every self-respecting punk rock fan!

Search & Destroy

Product Details:

Catalog #: 8004
Release Date: 03/09/2004
Media: CD
Price: $10.98
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:06 pm

they're weird, i wouldnt listen to more power casually, i look on it like an experiment or somehting, its very strange that they would do this - are they even allowed to?
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freemind

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:43 pm

I upload "more Power" If anyone want this record send me a PM..
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:28 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
they're weird, i wouldnt listen to more power casually, i look on it like an experiment or somehting, its very strange that they would do this - are they even allowed to?

I ussume it has been sanctioned by Iggy, he has sanctioned other releases on this label ("Sister Midnight")
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:41 pm

oh, yeh i'm sure its legal and everything, but i mean the overdubs, is that allowed?
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:56 pm

mark wrote:
Cleopatra have a history of doing this. About 10 years ago they got hold of some unreleased material by Steve Took from the early '70s, a mixture of solo acoustic and Stoogey band stuff, ruined it by smearing a load of fucking awful and inappropriate '90s ambient electronica over the tracks, then tried to pass it off as a long-lost Syd Barrett collaboration. They are the lowest of the low in my eyes.

Now thats very interesting, clears up alot, thanks for that Mark.
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trailerborn

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:03 pm

I've gotta admit that these overdubs are growing on me. Heretical, sure, but sounds really good in the car.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:07 pm

some of them are just strange, but i think some of them work like Born In A Trailer works and i cant remember the other one i thought was good, i think it was Rubber Legs, thought it was alright too
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:03 am

I won't be listening to it again, it totally ruins the atmosphere of some of my favorite Stooge tunes, particulary fucked over are -

I'm a Man
Johanna
Head On
Born in a Trailer

Cleopatra are renowned as a shit label, usually with totally shit artwork, the only thing good about this is they used a good cover for once.
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StoogesForever69

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:37 am

Tight Pants, I Got A Right, Money, Scene of the Crime, I'm Sick Of You & Louie Louie sound the same as the originals

The Overdubs sound like a live show Iggy did in the 90's
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JW82
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:43 am

mc wrote:
Head On
Born in a Trailer

Both additions of this drum machine (or perhaps drums) are funny. Head On sounds like 80s rock. Whereas Born In A Trailer is hilarious. I laughed my ass off cuz I would have never thought, I would be able to hear that song with a drum beat lol
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Aku



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:25 pm

I bought a copy of this CD, and I fuckin hate those overdubs...

The only reason I had to buy it...was "Money (that's what I want) " and the studio version of "Louie Louie"...
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Monger

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:23 am

i managed to find a vinyl copy of this..blue vinyl even...and Born in a trailer sounds like a drum machine
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StoogesFan



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:43 pm

Sorry to bring back this old thread, but I've only just gotten hold of this CD (only just found this forum too - hello everyone). Did anyone else notice that the 'mistake' on Cock In My Pocket has been skilfully edited out? This is one of the tracks without overdubs, so I guess the record company needed another way to mess with it. Also there is rhythm guitar overdubbed at the beginning of Cry For Me.

A great shame, as this tampering has ruined what could have been a great release. With regard to the overall quality of the rehearsal tapes, I think the BOMP releases are the best - they do own the original tapes, after all. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:45 pm

From what I gather, the best source for some of the '73 rehearsal tracks is still the bootleg LP Studio Rehearsals 73-74. Apparently this was used as the source for Bomp's Rubber Legs LP, which in turn was used for their Open Up & Bleed CD and part of Heavy Liquid. However, unlike these releases the bootleg runs at the correct speed and has an extra 3 minutes of Cry for Me / Pinpoint Eyes. Why the hell Bomp used this as a master rather than the original tapes is a mystery!

Having said that, this is all hearsay on my part as I haven't actually heard the LP in question. Does any kind soul out there have a transfer of it that they'd be able to upload?
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StoogesFan



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:53 pm

Hello Mark,

good to hear from you.

I can clear up your question as to why Bomp used non-tape sources as masters. I was in personal contact with Greg Shaw about a year or two before any of the rehearsal material was released (officially or otherwise). He told me about a deal he had done with James Williamson who then delivered "a large cache" of mostly unlabelled tapes. Greg listened briefly through them, where he found the three tracks that comprised the 'Tight Pants' EP, alternate mixes of 'Kill City' tracks plus 'Jesus Loves The Stooges' (a title Greg made up) that was overdubbed with additional vocal. Apart from this stuff, Greg admitted to me that he had "no idea" what was on the tapes. He copied some of this material onto a few cassette tapes and sent them to me. I guess that I must have been one of the first in England to hear this stuff.

When the bootleg appeared around a year or so later (fortunately Greg knew I was not the source as it contained material he had not sent to me) and then the 'Rubber Legs' release appeared, Greg was not best pleased. It was then he began to see the wisdom of cashing in on his stack of tapes. It was actually the 'Rubber Legs' release that was used as a master for the Bomp 'Open Up And Bleed' CD. Greg used it simply because it saved him the bother of searching through his unlabelled tapes. Unfortunately it resulted in the tracks playing at the wrong speed and a loss in quality. The track 'Rubber Legs (version 2)' is actually the same as version 1 but from a tape source and thus plays at the correct speed.

Of course, since then the tapes have been listened to very closely and just about everything possible has been released. Of the 'official' rehearsal tape releases, I still rate the Bomp stuff better quality.
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saichan



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:13 am

On his Facebook page, James said the More Power CD was approved by Pop/Williamson... I asked him about the overdubs, and who played them, but am yet to get a reply.
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Big Time Bum

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:47 pm

can u said me a link to james facebook page ?
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:42 pm

StoogesFan wrote:
I can clear up your question as to why Bomp used non-tape sources as masters.
Thanks, StoogesFan, for this interesting post. It helps to shed some light on a couple of mysteries about these rehearsal tapes. We discussed the tapes in some detail in this thread:-

http://stoogesforum.freeforumboard.net/jesus-loves-the-stooges-f1/revenge-and-bomp-releases-which-ones-are-still-needed-t1332.htm
and Mark also created a wikipedia page about them:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stooges_%27Detroit_Rehearsal%27_tapes

If you have any information to add to this about the tapes (eg about dates or tracklistings, or information as to when and why vocals were dubbed onto Jesus Loves The Stooges, for example) it would be great to hear it!

Thanks,

Andrew
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StoogesFan



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:23 am

Hello Andrew,

that was a very interesting thread. There was a mention of an article in 'Spiral Scratch' magazine - I was the author of that article. However, I am really impressed at the way members of this forum have dug so much deeper than I did into the origins of these recordings. The Wikipedia page is great.

With regard to 'Jesus Loves The Stooges' the only information I have came from a short conversation I had with Greg Shaw around the mid- 1980's. Memory is hazy after all this time, but I remember him saying that this part of the recording "sounded neat, and it was unusual hearing Iggy sing psuedo-gospel, so I used it on the record." He did mention that some of the vocals were overdubbed, but gave no details. One possibility is that having decided to use the track, Greg then asked Iggy to 'finish off' the vocals. Of course, it could simply be that Iggy himself added these vocals on a copy of the tape for his own experimentation. But if this is so, how did the tape end up back with James Williamson and why has this 'vocal' version not surfaced elsewhere?
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:57 am

saichan wrote:
On his Facebook page, James said the More Power CD was approved by Pop/Williamson... I asked him about the overdubs, and who played them, but am yet to get a reply.

So my copy of 'More Power' that I paid way too much for in an effort to help keep my local indie record store in business might not be a totally bastardized abomination after all?

The liner notes say that the "2009 audio transfers & sound restoration by Jurgen Engler & Chris Leitz at Atom H. Studio, Austin, TX" and that the mastering was done by the same two guys. Anybody heard of either one of them?
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c-deep



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone even notice this?   Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:28 pm

ElRoi wrote:
The liner notes say that the "2009 audio transfers & sound restoration by Jurgen Engler & Chris Leitz at Atom H. Studio, Austin, TX" and that the mastering was done by the same two guys. Anybody heard of either one of them?
Hey folks, my first post.
Jürgen Engler used to play / plays in german post punk / industrial outfits like Male, Die Krupps or DKAY.com. Chris Lietz is pretty much his partner in crime since Die Krupps. Since the mid 90s they've been living mainly in the US and eventually they moved their studio there.
I met them once because when they planned to move their studio to the US, we wanted to rent their old place and I remember them as being pretty cool. Nevertheless I must add that the drum machine (no doubt about it) on some of the audio samples was a big turn off for me.
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