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 Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions

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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:13 am

mc wrote:
the two Bowie mix CD versions I know of:

1989 - on Essential (UK) ESSCD005
1990 - Columbia/CBS (US) CK 32111

Thanks. I am presently scouring the interweb for one of these rare jewels.
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regufr



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:32 am

mc wrote:
the two Bowie mix CD versions I know of:

1989 - on Essential (UK) ESSCD005
1990 - Columbia/CBS (US) CK 32111

There's also CD CBS 32083 (made in Austria), the one that was available in France and other parts of Europe.
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Donald



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:55 pm

dereksee wrote:
Sundazed has the original mix available on vinyl, too. I haven't heard it to compare to my original, but there pressing is probably just as good as (or better than) an original (Columbia did not use high quality vinyl in the 70s).

Do Sundazed do both mixes? I've got their S&D 7" and that is the Iggy mix if I remember correctly.
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boogie

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:28 pm

dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Death Trip got the worst treatment,the soloing is buried from start to finish...
Too baaad!A mix between the two versions would be perfect.
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birchy



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:07 pm

Don't understand why they don't just bring out a double c.d.
like they did with the first two albums,with a separate mix on each disc..? surely that would make sense...!
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boogie

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:54 pm

I'm waitin for a raw power box set like the funhouse one,
it's hardcore but it's also history.
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krugersoldier

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:38 pm

The best version of Raw Power is the one in the imagination of the fans.

The record had such a strange history. I read that the mixes you hear on Rough Power include material that Iggy actually wanted to officially release! When you hear what a filthy noise those versions are you can judge what kind of mental state he was in for 1972 Smile Although the sword fighs idea was genius :)The record company threw there hands up in horror and give the mess to Bowie. He then did a really great job, the muddiness of the mix only added to the mystique as the listener had to imagine what it was like to listen when the band was actually playing the songs.

Fast forward to the mid-nineties young people are under the delusion that Alice and Chains and Stone Temple Pilots are good rock bands. Iggy gets the chance to remix his masterpiece, thinks i will show these little pricks, then in typical fashion goes completely over the top, turns all the knobs on the mixing board to 11 and ruins it. No one complains much though as the mix is so fucking loud its a great fun listen without really doing justice to the brilliance of the original work.

I would love to see a new mix of the original tapes under the guidance of James Williamson and Iggy together. The fact that he could get so much sound colour on the 1997 version shows the tapes are in good quality. I'm sure it would be fantastic, but financially i dont know if the record company would be interested. Does anyone know if the reissues of the firat two albums actually sold at all?[/i]
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:16 pm

birchy wrote:
Don't understand why they don't just bring out a double c.d.
like they did with the first two albums,with a separate mix on each disc..? surely that would make sense...!
Exactly.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:30 pm

boogie wrote:
A mix between the two versions would be perfect.

You could always import into Pro Tools (or any number of other recording applications) the tracks from both versions and mix them together track by track. I have actually done that a time or two with some live stuff. I attempted it with BOMP's Michigan Palace 10/6/73 and Skydog's version on DISC 2 of the DELUXE EDITION of Metallic KO. Unfortunately, it appeared that the left and right channels had been flipped on the Skydog version. So, even after flipping the channels back to match the Bomp version they still wouldn't sync up. I can only think that the speeds are a tiny bit different.
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Natalie
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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:11 pm

I am one of the few people still around these days that heard "Raw Power" live many times. The songs sounded like a combination of both mixes. They were loud more like the Iggy mix but James' guitar sounded more prominent than the Iggy mix.

Ah, those were the days ! ! !
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emanon



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:15 am

studioguy wrote:
dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Very true.

The Iggy mix gives me ear fatigue big time due to the insane mastering. I would love to see James get a crack at it and see what he comes up with. Kill City and New Values sound great.

Look for a CD without the Iggy notes on the back or find it in LP form

Yet another example of Iggy (unfortunately in this case) being ahead of the curve--so many rock cds of the last decade sound like this--up to 11 w/no dynamics, uber compressed w/digital distortion, sounding like the worst mp3's right out of the case. IMO, the only improvement on the Iggy mix is more bass. I think a careful remaster of the Bowie mix, supervised by James, would be a good start. But I still wanna hear the drums!!! I dunno, would it hurt Iggy's feelings too much to just dump his mix entirely? I suspect CBS can do as they please anywho.
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studioguy

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:46 am

emanon wrote:
studioguy wrote:
dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Very true.

The Iggy mix gives me ear fatigue big time due to the insane mastering. I would love to see James get a crack at it and see what he comes up with. Kill City and New Values sound great.

Look for a CD without the Iggy notes on the back or find it in LP form

Yet another example of Iggy (unfortunately in this case) being ahead of the curve--so many rock cds of the last decade sound like this--up to 11 w/no dynamics, uber compressed w/digital distortion, sounding like the worst mp3's right out of the case. IMO, the only improvement on the Iggy mix is more bass. I think a careful remaster of the Bowie mix, supervised by James, would be a good start. But I still wanna hear the drums!!! I dunno, would it hurt Iggy's feelings too much to just dump his mix entirely? I suspect CBS can do as they please anywho.


I own a small recording studio and all my customers want me to master like that. I really hate everything right up to the bleeding edge of digital distortion.

I totally agree on the Bass and Drums, lets hear Ron and Scott more!! I think I read a post or interview where James said the Bass and Drums were recorded badly, so the "perfect mix might not be possible.
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don_vercetti



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:16 pm

I think ultimately, on the Bowie mix you can hear James's guitar SO much better on all the tracks, that it is probably the better version. Whoever said that thing about the solo at the end of Search and Destroy was right, on the Bowie mix it jumps out at you, on Iggy's mix you have to strain to hear it.

In some ways, what we need is a compilation of the best songs from both records. For instance, Search And Destroy and Gimme Danger sound better by Bowie, but Penetration is far better on Iggy's mix.
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LuckyMonkey



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:47 pm

New man here........... Be gentle.

As I understand it. From stuff I have read.
The drum, bass and guitar were put on to one track.
Lead guitar another.
Vocals another.
Backing vocals another.

On "Rough Power" you can hear stuff that Bowie and/or Iggy mixed out. The "Oohhs" on Raw Power, The sword fight on Search & Destroy.

If what I have said above it right - or nearly right - you're pretty limited with what you can do with this awesome beast.

Love it for what it is - not what it should / could have been.
No one would ask Monet to go back & put a bit of extra paint on one of his canvases - would they?

Turn it up - whichever version - & make your ears bleed. That's it's true beauty.

Nothing like it in 1973 or since.

Until May 2010...........
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Nadja

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:56 pm

don_vercetti wrote:
I think ultimately, on the Bowie mix you can hear James's guitar SO much better on all the tracks, that it is probably the better version. .

Not to mention the fact that you can ultimately hear the bass better too.
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studioguy

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:16 pm

don_vercetti wrote:
I think ultimately, on the Bowie mix you can hear James's guitar SO much better on all the tracks, that it is probably the better version. Whoever said that thing about the solo at the end of Search and Destroy was right, on the Bowie mix it jumps out at you, on Iggy's mix you have to strain to hear it.

In some ways, what we need is a compilation of the best songs from both records. For instance, Search And Destroy and Gimme Danger sound better by Bowie, but Penetration is far better on Iggy's mix.

Penetration is by far the best mix on the Iggy mix.
I've thought about doing the compilation version myself by running an expander on the Iggy mix to maybe un-squash it a little if possible and eq-ing the Bowie mix and squashing it a bit so it matches the other one. And of course adding Tight Pants as a bonus track as I like that better than Shake Appeal!
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Aku



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:10 pm

studioguy wrote:
don_vercetti wrote:
I think ultimately, on the Bowie mix you can hear James's guitar SO much better on all the tracks, that it is probably the better version. Whoever said that thing about the solo at the end of Search and Destroy was right, on the Bowie mix it jumps out at you, on Iggy's mix you have to strain to hear it.

In some ways, what we need is a compilation of the best songs from both records. For instance, Search And Destroy and Gimme Danger sound better by Bowie, but Penetration is far better on Iggy's mix.

Penetration is by far the best mix on the Iggy mix.
!


- This is kinda funny that you feel that way, cause I ....heh.. I think "Penetration" fuckin sucks on Iggy's mix !!!! - One of the reasons why I love Bowie´s mix is his take on Penetration.
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:52 pm

I agree with you Aku I love Bowie's mix on "Penetration".
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MJG196

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:00 pm

ElRoi wrote:
dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Do you know the last date that the Bowie mixed version was issued?

ElRoi, when you are searching for it, be sure to ask the seller if it is the REMASTER. Also, people that but it up on eBay don't necessarily know which version it may be, or even if there was more than one version.
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Aku



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:43 am

G, F#, E wrote:
I agree with you Aku I love Bowie's mix on "Penetration".

I guess, Everyone has personal feelings about these things..and ...I don't know...
I love both - Bowie's mix and Iggy's remix - I love them both - but in "Penetration"
....I love that echo / delay in the vocals in Penetration ...in Bowie's mix..I think it's beautiful and I was rather...aah...I dont know...I have mixed feelings about Iggy's remix.
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don_vercetti



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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:52 am

Aku wrote:
G, F#, E wrote:
I agree with you Aku I love Bowie's mix on "Penetration".

I guess, Everyone has personal feelings about these things..and ...I don't know...
I love both - Bowie's mix and Iggy's remix - I love them both - but in "Penetration"
....I love that echo / delay in the vocals in Penetration ...in Bowie's mix..I think it's beautiful and I was rather...aah...I dont know...I have mixed feelings about Iggy's remix.


That's funny, cos one thing that annoyed me is the reverb on the drums sounds terrible on Bowie's mix. The vocals do sound good, but the rhythm guitar lacks punch and as I said, the drums sound really 80's (obviously they hadn't happened yet but still...). As you say thought, everyone feels different.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:20 am

mg196 wrote:
ElRoi wrote:
dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Do you know the last date that the Bowie mixed version was issued?

ElRoi, when you are searching for it, be sure to ask the seller if it is the REMASTER. Also, people that but it up on eBay don't necessarily know which version it may be, or even if there was more than one version.

It is really hard to get any info from sellers. I looked at Amazon and one of the listings for Raw Power had a 1990 release date, which I believe would be the original Bowie version, correct? However, it had Sony listed as the label. Then to further confuse the situation, the product images were of the Columbia/Legacy release. I inquired of all the sellers to the reality of which release they were offering and everyone that responded claimed to not know. So, I wenr ahead and odered a used copy for $2.94. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that I get the correct one as I already have the Columbia/Legacy edition.
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