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 Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes

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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:23 pm

I currently reading Paul Trynka's "Open Up And Bleed." From page 134, paragraph 3,

"Two days after the Kings Cross performance, the Stooges went into London's Olympic Studios with engineer Keith Harwood to record more rehearsals. Together with other early demos from Trident Studios and tapes from the R & G Jones rehearsal studio, where they'd start at midnight and play until dawn, they document a period of insistent creativity and a sound that was profoundly different from the previous Stooges."

The Olympic Studios material is featured on Easy Actions Heavy Liquid box set, but what is the story on the Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studios material?

Am I asking a redundant question on this matter? Has it been discussed elsewhere? I just haven't seen this material mentioned anywhere but in Paul's book.
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trailerborn

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:21 am

It's a good question, but I don't think anyone has unearthed these tapes.

I first read about a tape called 'R.G. Jones at Wimbeldon' years ago that supposedly contained really early demos of 'Search & Destroy' and others.

As with all Stooges stuff from this period, nobody seems to know anything definitive.
Hopefully Williamson can clear this one up eventually. I mean, why am I just finding out now (10 yrs. after the Iggy remix) that Raw Power used 13 tracks? Being a Stooges buff requires a LOT of patience.

Edit: My stuff is packed-up so I can't check at the moment, but Iggy might've mentioned these tapes in the lengthy interview included in the Raw Power remix liner notes.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:38 am

Thanks trailerborn. We have a start now. Maybe, someone can contact James a see if he remembers what happened to the material in question.
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:35 pm

Presumably the I'm Sick Of You / Tight Pants / Scene of the Crime tracks are from either Trident or RG Jones. I don't think they're from Olympic.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:59 pm

So from the Heavy Liquid box set - Disc 1 tracks:

18. Im sick of you {Bonus tracks Recorded London 72} (6:54)
19. Tight Pants {Bonus tracks Recorded London 72} (2:12)
20. Scene of the crime {Bonus tracks Recorded London 72} (2:54)

are possibly from either the Trident Studios or R & G Studio tapes. I had wondered if that was in fact the case with those three tracks. You would think that Easy Action would have made a point of noting this if these three tracks were indeed from one of those two sources. Does anyone else have any speculation on this?
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neven



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:36 pm

maybe those guys doing the raw power box set will go through all these tapes
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:49 pm

You would hope so. They could do it up right by doing some top notch remastering of the best of all the London material.
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:29 pm

I think R & G Studio was basically rehearsals, not recordings. Per
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Oh, OK. So, maybe I am misinterpreting something from Paul's statement,

"Together with other early demos from Trident Studios and tapes from the R & G Jones rehearsal studio, where they'd start at midnight and play until dawn...

Actually, from the way that it is written you could deduce that there were only tapes from the R & G Jones rehearsal studio. But, I am sure you are far more informed on these matter than I. So, if you believe there were only recordings from Trident studios then that is most likely the case. I just came across that line recently in reading Paul's book and wondered why I had never read or heard anything about such material. I figured someone on here would be able to clear up the matter for me. So, do you think those three tracks from the first Heavy Liquid disc are possibly from the Trident sessions?
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:53 pm

Here's some vague info on London 72 recordings:
http://londonsmusiclandmarks.blogspot.com/2008/12/iggy-and-stooges.html

&

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZlCiOrDUj2MC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=stooges+r.g.+jones&source=bl&ots=c9hPmfFY5o&sig=x6hd3UTZzAbrfdZ4CJwFc-zNcpA&hl=en&ei=3QMLS9HyFsvE4Qb2lJmjBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=stooges%20r.g.%20jones&f=false
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:05 am

So, it appears that there may have been some recordings done at R & G Jones or R.G. Jones studio.
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:27 am

pernil wrote:
I think R & G Studio was basically rehearsals, not recordings. Per
The thing is though, RG Jones (not 'R & G') wasn't a rehearsal studio. It was a noted independent recording studio for many years, especially during the '60s, when bands like the Stones and the Yardbirds recorded a lot of their output. See www.atel.org.uk/images/rgjoneshistory.pdf

I'd say that if the Stooges were in there, it must have been to record. If they just wanted a rehearsal space, there would have been much cheaper and more convenient options - such as the basement of the Seymour Walk house where they were living, as mentioned in the blog linked to above.
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:36 am

trailerborn wrote:
Edit: My stuff is packed-up so I can't check at the moment, but Iggy might've mentioned these tapes in the lengthy interview included in the Raw Power remix liner notes.

Yes the interview quotes Iggy a couple of times apparently referring to recording an 8-track early demo of 'Search And Destroy' at 'R.G. Jones'.

Andrew
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:14 am

So, could one assume that those last three tracks on Disc 1 of HL were all recorded at R.G. Jones along with the 8-track early demo of Search and Destroy referred to in those articles? Has anyone listened closely enough to those three tracks to determine if they were possibly recorded during the same session or at least if they were all recorded in the same studio?
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:43 am

Well, upon closer listening "I'm Sick of You" seems to have an organ or some sort of keys on the chorus parts. "Tight Pants" and "Scene of the Crime" clearly have piano on those two tracks. So, unless I'm missing something it would seem doubtful that those three tracks were recorded while they were in London. Wasn't it supposedly just Iggy, James and the Ashetons when they were rehearsing in London? Unless I missed something in the readings or the fact that someone played some keys just wasn't mentioned.
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Garageman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:33 am

There is definitely a piano on Scene Of The Crime, but not on Tight Pants or I'm Sick Of You or if there is, I can't hear it...
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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:44 pm

If there's a piano on those tracks, it's a pretty basic part that James or even Iggy could probably have managed (see also Gimme Danger). I don't think these tracks are from 1973 if that's what's being implied - for one thing, they're old songs that weren't in the post-Raw Power live set, and Bob Scheff/Scott Thurston's piano styles are pretty noticable.

I think these three songs are from the Trident session. If the RG Jones session had surfaced, we would have heard the demo of Search & Destroy.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:34 pm

They are supposedly from the 1972 London material, according to the Easy Action "Heavy Liquid" box set: The Olympic Studio Tapes London 1972 - All Unheard & Unreleased Taken from recently discovered Multi Track Master Tapes!
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:51 pm

That refers to the main body of that CD, with all the takes of I Got a Right / Gimme Some Skin. Sick Of You, Scene of the Crime and Tight Pants are bonus tracks, simply labelled "Recorded London 72". I'd suggest Trident '72.
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:49 pm

could these tapes still be with Tony de Fries? I know he freaked over them. Maybe he just filed them away and forgot about them.
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:13 pm

That would certainly explain a lot. Tantalisingly, the Mainman vaults have opened in the past - see the various Bowie releases. Sounds like a job for Carlton!
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:43 pm

The London blog explained a lot of things. Clearly, they did record at RG. Rehearsals may have been at the house. James has said that "S&D" didn't exist until the actual RP album sessions, but Iggy has said it was demoed earlier. The London blog date was interesting, assuming it was the June article and not the later September one that inspired Iggy's lyrics. The riff and chord sequence could have existed beforehand, so it's difficult to say when the song was actually written. Still, they seemed to have written quite a lot of new material after the King's Cross gig and the start of the RP album sessions, i.e. during July-August. Per
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LuckyMonkey



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:08 pm

Well, what a perplexing pancake this all is.

Iggy & James in London March 1972.
Ron & Rock arrive June 6th 1972.
We have them at:
Trident Studios - 17 Soho Square - dates unknown.
RG Jones - Endeavour Way, Wimbledon - dates unknown.
Kings Cross gig - 15 July 1972.
Olympic Sound Studios - 17 th July to 21st July 1972.
Rehearsing @ Seymours Walk - July/August 1972 (Photographed by Mick Rock - "a couple of weeks after La Scala" - in the basement just off Fulham Road - Iggy can clearly be seen "reading" the July issue of Playboy).
CBS Studios - Whitfield Street - 10th September to 6th October.

The material that has so far surfaced is stated to come from Olympic Studios - both the BOMP stuff & the Easy Action Heavy Liquid disc 1 stuff.
What documentation goes with the tapes held by BOMP?
What else do they have?
How did Easy Action get their access to the "bonus tracks" previously issued by BOMP?
What documentation goes with their issued tracks?
What does Phillip Mogane still have - there is a contemporary track "Rock Action "(with keyboards) on the Siamese Dogs CD.- and the source and dates would be helpful.
According to the Nick Kent article I posted http://stoogesforum.freeforumboard.net/down-on-the-street-f9/1975-nme-article-t1828.htm there was a 4 track demo done at CBS studios - containing "Gimme Some Skin, Nigger Man, Fresh Rag & Search & Destroy". I, personally, cant see that as being correct. I'd love to be proved wrong.
And what does DeFries still have? Any of the tracks that were demoed for him?

More questions than answers..............Sorry.
Bomp, Easy Action, Siamese Records, DeFries/Mainman.
Someone knows, surely??

The answers are out there...........
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:48 am

Thanks to everyone for continuing to explore this question. Hopefully someone out there will be able to shed some more light on the whereabouts of this material.
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adams66



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:21 am

Lots of questions indeed - but "Rock Action" is not from 1972. As with many Stooges semi official releases the details on the disc are wrong. "Rock Action" is recorded at San Diego in late 1977. Quite why it's on the Siamese Dogs disc is a mystery.
Cheers,
Richard
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