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 Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes

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trailerborn

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:12 am

Nice avatar, LeRoi, but the likeness is a bit off. Looks more like Williamson (see sidebar) than Iggy.

Anyone know if the version of I Got A Righton 'Siamese Dogs' is from Olympic Studios?

It souns all flange-y and Iggy is very hoarse, completely different from all the other Olympic takes. I vaguely remember a credit to Sugerman. Is this a later '73 LA take?
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:14 am

Thanks. You will have to take up the likeness discrepancies with the poster artist Micheal Motorcycle:
http://www.michaelmichaelmotorcycle.com/Templates/Stooges-Poster.dwt

I just read the portion of Paul's book concerning the 1973 Detroit Ford Auditorium performance:

"That evenings show, according to all who attended, was a triumphant homecoming to a crowd of diehard fans - including Mr. and Mrs. Osterberg - who packed the swanky, all-seated venue, which, with its wood-lined interior and chandeliers, normally housed the Detroit Symphony Orchestra."

And of course, once again there was no recording. The Stooges were not only playing in their hometown (or at least pretty damn close to Ann Arbor) in support of their new album, but performing in probably one of the nicest venues they had or ever would have the opportunity in which to play. Most people who call themselves promoters would have seen this as a perfect opportunity to record a live performance, but not Defries. Obviously, Defries and MainMan Entertainment must have had as little foresight as the idiots at Elektra.
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:25 pm

Yes it seems Bowie's success meant management ignored the Stooges. But then again if it wasn't for Bowie there would be no Raw Power.


Last edited by mc on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:26 pm

Hi!

I checked out the list. You have misplaced one gig - you have the ticket for Aug 18 1973 American Theatre, but have listed it as "730618USA American ST Charles". The list is pretty impressive and I need to check against ours!

Per
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:22 pm

pernil wrote:
Hi!

I checked out the list. You have misplaced one gig - you have the ticket for Aug 18 1973 American Theatre, but have listed it as "730618USA American ST Charles". The list is pretty impressive and I need to check against ours!

Per

and you have the Cockettes listed as the Crockettes Very Happy
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:12 pm

mc wrote:
Yes it seems Bowie's success meant management ignored the Stooges. But then again if it wasn't for Bowie there would be no Raw Power.

True. However, according to Paul's book Bowie really didn't want to dump them. Defries seemed to not really give a crap about them and never put to much effort into promoting them. It seems that the only person who ever really believed in them was Danny Fields, but he never had enough industry juice to do a whole lot for them.
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:43 am

jerrythebarman wrote:
And, come to think of it, I think the Wampler's Lake show might have been on another tape I received from a different trader who got it from Greg. Your anecdote's got me thinking.....

How's the rooting through old tape boxes going, Jerry?

Paul
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:53 am

Sorry, haven't gotten to that yet. Baby due very soon, working lots, very busy. Will get on it soon !
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:47 am

Okay, I dug out those cassettes and I was wrong, for starters, about the "Iggy and guitarist" and rehearsals being on the same tapes, they're not. So, it's two c-90s of Iggy jamming w/ someone on guitar, which is pretty commonly available of course. Then, two c-90s of '73 Rehearsals (he had them listed as '74 Rehearsals but that would be wrong, wouldn't it ?).

Tape 1

Side A

Johanna/Rubber Legs I/Rubber Legs II/ I'm Hungry (my title, probably Til the End of the Night)/Open Up and Bleed/She Creatures of the Hollywood Hills/Jesus Loves the Stooges

Side B

Gimme Danger/Gimme Danger II/Gimme Danger III/Jam (?)/ I'm Lost (?)/Cock in My Pocket/Head On

Tape 2

Side A

Search and Destroy/Search and Destroy II/Raw Power/Raw Power II/Raw Power III/Death Trip (the usual "alt. mix")/Born In a Trailer/Jam

Side B

Johanna/Rubber Legs/Heroin Is My Best Friend/Johanna II/Jam/Head On/Head On II


I'm gonna listen to these over the next day or so but, again, I'd be surprised if it hadn't all been released, cumulatively, on the various BOMP releases. Certainly seen these tapes on many a trade list.
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:43 am

jerrythebarman wrote:
I'm gonna listen to these over the next day or so but, again, I'd be surprised if it hadn't all been released, cumulatively, on the various BOMP releases. Certainly seen these tapes on many a trade list.

Those tapes seem to be the same as mine, although if yours are direct from Greg they should be better quality than mine. Not everything on them has been released. I'll try below to link to the posts where I went through each tape in detail, correlating the tracks to Heavy Liquid or other releases:-

Tape 1

Tape 2

Tape 3

Hope that worked!

Andrew
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:51 pm

Most of them also tally with the Wikipedia page I did here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stooges_%27Detroit_Rehearsal%27_tapes#Track_listing

jerrythebarman wrote:
Tape 1

Side A

Johanna/Rubber Legs I/Rubber Legs II/ I'm Hungry (my title, probably Til the End of the Night)/Open Up and Bleed/She Creatures of the Hollywood Hills/Jesus Loves the Stooges

Side B

Gimme Danger/Gimme Danger II/Gimme Danger III
All from 20 February 1973
Quote :
/Jam (?)/ I'm Lost (?)/Cock in My Pocket/Head On

Tape 2

Side A

Search and Destroy/Search and Destroy II/Raw Power/Raw Power II/Raw Power III/Death Trip (the usual "alt. mix")/Born In a Trailer/Jam
From 11/19 March 1973
Quote :

Side B

Johanna/Rubber Legs/Heroin Is My Best Friend/Johanna II/Jam/Head On/Head On II
This is the only one I can't line up with the listings I have. Do Heroin Is My Best Friend (never heard that title before!) or the jam possibly fit with any of the obscure titles on the Wikipedia page?
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:52 pm

jerrythebarman wrote:
Okay, I dug out those cassettes and I was wrong, for starters, about the "Iggy and guitarist" and rehearsals being on the same tapes, they're not. So, it's two c-90s of Iggy jamming w/ someone on guitar, which is pretty commonly available of course. Then, two c-90s of '73 Rehearsals (he had them listed as '74 Rehearsals but that would be wrong, wouldn't it ?).

Tape 1

Side A

Johanna/Rubber Legs I/Rubber Legs II/ I'm Hungry (my title, probably Til the End of the Night)/Open Up and Bleed/She Creatures of the Hollywood Hills/Jesus Loves the Stooges

Side B

Gimme Danger/Gimme Danger II/Gimme Danger III/Jam (?)/ I'm Lost (?)/Cock in My Pocket/Head On

Tape 2

Side A

Search and Destroy/Search and Destroy II/Raw Power/Raw Power II/Raw Power III/Death Trip (the usual "alt. mix")/Born In a Trailer/Jam

Side B

Johanna/Rubber Legs/Heroin Is My Best Friend/Johanna II/Jam/Head On/Head On II


I'm gonna listen to these over the next day or so but, again, I'd be surprised if it hadn't all been released, cumulatively, on the various BOMP releases. Certainly seen these tapes on many a trade list.

So, have these tapes been transferred to the digital realm?
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:14 pm

No, they haven't yet. I don't have the capability to do that but a friend of mine does. I'll pass them along to him, but don't expect it to get done quickly, especially with Xmas just around the corner. I'll keep you posted....
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:23 pm

Well done on the research, Mark. I'm gonna listen to the tapes today or tomorrow, when I have time off and can dig out a cassette player and I'll let you know about 'Heroin Is My Best Friend'. To be honest, I don't recall whether Greg Shaw gave that tune the title or I did. Ain't played these in a long time (twenty years ?) since most of it is on the various Bomp releases. Actually, thinking about it a little more, it wouldn't have been him, since he always typed, rather than wrote, dates, track listing, etc. on the cassette cards, which I always thought was a little odd, and cumbersome. So, these came, as was often the case, without track listing, and I then wrote them out myself as I listened.
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:34 am

Okay, after listening to the two tapes, here's a summary: Looked on my old, hand-typed, trade lists and I see I got them in early '89, so some of those Revenge/Fan Club releases were certainly already out there. I think now it's more likely my friend Kevin got them from Shaw (he started trading with him before I did) and I copied them from him. Unfortunately, one of the main reasons I conclude that is that these tapes run slightly too fast, probably the result of the crappy dubbing deck I used back in my early 20's before I knew any better. I tried playing along on guitar, and 'Search and Destroy' would here seem to be in D, as opposed to the correct C sharp, so half a step sharp. Same with a couple other songs I checked on a couple different guitars to be sure. Not way too fast, but kinda noticeable if you start to listen for it.

And, yeah, Mark, everything I listened to matches up to your Wikipedia entries for 2/20/73 and 3/11 and 19/73 exactly except for Side 2 of the second cassette. What I had listed as 'Heroin Is My Best Friend' is actually 'Til The End of the Night'. I assume that what's on Side 2 is a composite of stuff from those other dates. I'm intrigued by those other dates ie. Feb. 3rd w/ titles like Black Ace and such. Are they out there to be heard or are those titles taken from Bomp logs ? Sorry, I'm sure that's been covered here at some point before.
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:35 am

jerrythebarman wrote:
Unfortunately, one of the main reasons I conclude that is that these tapes run slightly too fast, probably the result of the crappy dubbing deck I used back in my early 20's before I knew any better. I tried playing along on guitar, and 'Search and Destroy' would here seem to be in D, as opposed to the correct C sharp, so half a step sharp.
Another useful speed comparison might be 'Death Trip' as it is just a dub of the LP version.

jerrythebarman wrote:
And, yeah, Mark, everything I listened to matches up to your Wikipedia entries for 2/20/73 and 3/11 and 19/73 exactly except for Side 2 of the second cassette. What I had listed as 'Heroin Is My Best Friend' is actually 'Til The End of the Night'.
Yes, according to my notes (which were the basis of Mark's Wikipedia entries) this is an unreleased version of 'Til The End Of The Night' with different lyrics.

Andrew
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mark



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:29 pm

jerrythebarman wrote:
I'm intrigued by those other dates ie. Feb. 3rd w/ titles like Black Ace and such. Are they out there to be heard or are those titles taken from Bomp logs ? Sorry, I'm sure that's been covered here at some point before.
As far as I know they don't circulate. Could be wrong though. I've a feeling they may well be alternative titles for tunes that we've heard - otherwise I can't understand why Bomp wouldn't have released them.

Yes, the titles come from Bomp's archives - Per Nilssen dug them up for the Wild One book.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:59 pm

I've following the back and forth and I have to ask, so you both speculate that all of these songs have been released by BOMP. Exactly which BOMP releases would those be?
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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:34 pm

Well, I guess to be more exact, the Bomp releases Wild Love, Year of the Iguana and Open Up and Bleed, along with the Heavy Liquid box set, would cover most of what is on those two tapes, if I'm not mistaken. I used to have the Rubber Legs lp, the Til the End of the Night lp and the My Girl Hates My Heroin lp, all on Revenge, but I sold them because all of the material on them is now available, cumulatively, on the above-mentioned releases. I hope I'm right about that. I'm pretty sure I am, because I went through those Revenge lps, song by song, before selling them, to make sure there was nothing that was still exclusive to them.

Thinking about that, though, and going a bit off-topic, I still have the live 7" that came with Rubber Legs, which is Gimme Danger b/w I Need Somebody. Anybody know which '73 show they're taken from ? No date is given but I'm guessing one of the Whiskey shows. A clue would be that on Gimme Danger James is quite out of tune.
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:16 am

jerrythebarman wrote:
I used to have the Rubber Legs lp, the Til the End of the Night lp and the My Girl Hates My Heroin lp, all on Revenge, but I sold them because all of the material on them is now available, cumulatively, on the above-mentioned releases. I hope I'm right about that. I'm pretty sure I am, because I went through those Revenge lps, song by song, before selling them, to make sure there was nothing that was still exclusive to them.
As discussed in the thread I've already referred to, the title track of "My Girl Hates My Heroin" is not on any of the other releases mentioned, although there are different takes of it under the title "Wild Love". Similarly the fast version of "Open Up And Bleed" is unique to "Till The End Of The Night".

Andrew
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:54 pm

Okay, thanks for that. Sorry didn't notice the thread you already referred to.
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:31 am

jerrythebarman wrote:
Thinking about that, though, and going a bit off-topic, I still have the live 7" that came with Rubber Legs, which is Gimme Danger b/w I Need Somebody. Anybody know which '73 show they're taken from ?

I had thought they were from one of the American Theatre, St Louis shows on 18 August, but I've just listened to the tapes and it seems they're not. Going from Per Nilsen's list of tapes here, it looks like they must be from the Max's Kansas City 6 August show. The track timings seems to match, plus all the other shows shows that feature both songs have been released and they aren't from any of those. I don't have a tape of Max's 6 August, though, so I can't check for sure.

Andrew
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:41 am

More music tidbits from Paul's book:

...Iggy sang his way through a collection of about eight songs, while Williamson accompanied him on his Gibson Les Paul Custom, plugged into a tiny Pignose amplifier. Even in this raw, unadorned state, the songs had a stark beauty. A few, including "I Got Nothing" and "Johanna," were familiar from the Stooges set, but there was a new simplicity and focus to their delivery. The new songs were mostly affecting but defiant descricptions of life on the edge in Los Angeles. "Beyond the Law," Jim said, described his relationship with (Ray) Manzarek - "the straights all hate the sounds we make" - while "Kill City" was a forensic description of his own perdicament, living "where the debris meets the sea. / It's a plyground for the rich, it's a loaded gun for me."

next paragraph

Around this same time, Jim and James played these songs for John Cale, who preserved their acoustic performances on his tiny cassette recorder...

Do these recordings still exist and if so, has anyone here ever heard them?
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:14 am

trailerborn wrote:
Anyone know if the version of I Got A Righton 'Siamese Dogs' is from Olympic Studios?

It souns all flange-y and Iggy is very hoarse, completely different from all the other Olympic takes. I vaguely remember a credit to Sugerman. Is this a later '73 LA take?
Good question. This is the second 'I Got A Right' on 'Siamese Dogs' and it also appears on various Revenge and other non-Bomp releases, but not on Bomp at all I don't think, nor on 'Heavy Liquid'. It does sound pretty different and I've long wondered what the story is there.

Andrew
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Trident Studios and R & G Jones rehearsal studio tapes   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:24 pm

andrew wrote:
jerrythebarman wrote:
Thinking about that, though, and going a bit off-topic, I still have the live 7" that came with Rubber Legs, which is Gimme Danger b/w I Need Somebody. Anybody know which '73 show they're taken from ?

I had thought they were from one of the American Theatre, St Louis shows on 18 August, but I've just listened to the tapes and it seems they're not. Going from Per Nilsen's list of tapes here, it looks like they must be from the Max's Kansas City 6 August show. The track timings seems to match, plus all the other shows shows that feature both songs have been released and they aren't from any of those. I don't have a tape of Max's 6 August, though, so I can't check for sure.

Andrew

I'd always heard they were from the American Theatre St Louis as well. I'd like to hear the full Max's 6 August show to find out.
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