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 First album new edition on Rhino Handmade

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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:22 am

jerry can you supply the track times of the Cale tracks?....cheers
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:46 am

Here's the times for the Cale tracks:

1969- 2:57
Not Right- 2:40
We Will Fall- 11:03
No Fun- 5:02
Real Cool Time- 2:43
Ann- 3:15
Little Doll- 3:06
I.W.B.Y.D.- 3:45
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Garageman

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:51 am

mc wrote:
OK, for those wondering about this (like I was), I just had it confirmed by the guy who sold the tape to Rhino that there is only one take of Asthma Attack.

So the 7" just duplicates the CD track - but for some reason they have made it shorter or they have sped it up???

...and split it into two parts????
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johnthelawman



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:51 pm

jerrythebarman wrote:
Here's the times for the Cale tracks:

1969- 2:57
Not Right- 2:40
We Will Fall- 11:03
No Fun- 5:02
Real Cool Time- 2:43
Ann- 3:15
Little Doll- 3:06
I.W.B.Y.D.- 3:45


Too slow... way too slow
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:16 pm

Garageman wrote:
mc wrote:
OK, for those wondering about this (like I was), I just had it confirmed by the guy who sold the tape to Rhino that there is only one take of Asthma Attack.

So the 7" just duplicates the CD track - but for some reason they have made it shorter or they have sped it up???

...and split it into two parts????

It's not unusual for a long song to be split in two for a single release. I know there are many examples but at the moment can only think of Dylan's Rainy Day Women pts 1 & 2 and Bowie's Memory of a Free Festival. The single is a 'bonus' collectors item and I think that as it's the same track as the CD they felt they could split it in the traditional way especially for a track recorded in the 60's.

This was made all very clear from the start on the rhino site. At least I understood that it was the case.
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:22 pm

johnthelawman wrote:
jerrythebarman wrote:
Here's the times for the Cale tracks:

1969- 2:57
Not Right- 2:40
We Will Fall- 11:03
No Fun- 5:02
Real Cool Time- 2:43
Ann- 3:15
Little Doll- 3:06
I.W.B.Y.D.- 3:45


Too slow... way too slow


There is not necessarily a direct relationship between track time and track speed if the song is faded out at the end. As many (if not all but correct me if I am wrong) of the songs on Stooges 1st fade at the end then the differences in track timings can attributed to differences in the start of the fade out. Of course that does not mean that the speeds are right or wrong. Only a direct listening comparison can tell us that.


Last edited by mr.datsun on Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnthelawman



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:15 pm

I doubt these fade out that much later than the Cale tracks on the 1st deluxe edition. Also, these timings correspond to the ones shown on the Rhino site (aside from No Fun which above is shown at 5:02, Rhino shows 4:42). The samples on the Rhino site are clearly too slow. IMO they are 3/4 a step too slow, which is pretty major. Changes the key flat and is on it's way to downing it a full note. This is a big screw-up and Rhino should fix it. Especially on a 2CD $50 gouge job like this.

But, you're right, a listen to the actual CD is needed to be 100% sure (right now I'm just 90%), so it would be good if someone could post a clip of one of the Cale tracks from the new set.
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jerrythebarman

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:31 pm

Okay, I've gotta run off to work but took a quick listen to the Cale mix Dog from the new Rhino Handmade release vs. Cale mix Dog from the 2005 reissue and it's definitely slower. I tried to play along with a guitar in standard tuning and while the '05 version seems about a half step down, the "new" version is, as john said above, about 3/4 a step down. Crazy that no one noticed this in the mastering process or at any other point.

Given that the '05 versions seem to be slowed down, though not as much, I'm wondering whether Cale did this in the mix, maybe to give it a heavier, more ominous vibe ? The liner notes for the new release imply that but make no mention of actually slowing the tape down.
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:32 pm

i have asked Cale and hope for a reply...but he doesn't dwell on the past and is likely to be recording
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:40 am

I never notice that the 2005 Cale tracks were slow. Hopefully I won't notice that the new ones are even slower and can thus still get some minor enjoyment out of the huge amount of money i spent on the boxset. If my memory gets worse I might even forget you guys started dissing the new set before it even came out.

Tonedeaf Tony.
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:39 am

maybe we should only tell rhino about the speed issue after they have dispatched the replacement copies.., getting three sets for the price of one!
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Ilmostro



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:48 am

Anybody in the US get theirs yet ? Looks like they're shipping to Canada first(lucky dogs). I am ready for this to be blasted through the stereo for a few hours !!!
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Nervousnorvus



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:18 pm

Mine landed today.....
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:38 pm

Ok cool! where the devil in the world are you?....can you upload all the music and scan the booklet so we can all have a look and listen...ok kidding!
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Nitebob



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:54 pm

My Rhino box came today.
nitebob
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Ilmostro



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:34 pm

Thanks , Maybe today is the day !
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nkdlunch



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sat May 01, 2010 8:58 pm

Well, I haven't listened to it yet, but as far as packaging Rhino did a great job! Nice solid construction of tri-fold "book". Nice pics on covers
and nice little booklet inside. Now just gotta see how it sounds!
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sat May 01, 2010 10:38 pm

nkdlunch wrote:
Well, I haven't listened to it yet, but as far as packaging Rhino did a great job! Nice solid construction of tri-fold "book". Nice pics on covers
and nice little booklet inside. Now just gotta see how it sounds!

Please let us know, especially how Asthma Attack and all the unreleased tracks sound.
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steve2787



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 1:10 am

Just got my copy in the mail here in Los Angeles. The original album seems to be the same remaster as the 2005 reissue, which is no surprise.

The bad news is that that the Cale mixes are indeed painfully slow. From the opening notes of the Cale version of 1969, it's clear there's something wrong with the speed. Unless its how Cale intended the album to run in the first place, which is unlikely. The sound quality on the Cale mixes are pretty good given the source of the material. There's some tape hiss, but they've been cleaned it up pretty well. I'd put it on the same level as the quality of the the legacy Raw Power remaster (which I think was totally botched, given the access to the master recordings and the superior sounding mixes discussed in the embassy reels thread.)

The quality of asthma attack is great. It sounds almost as good as the remaster of the original album. It reminds me of a prequel to LA Blues and is definitely more in the "freeform" style of Funhouse. The extended version of We Will Fall Also sounds great. The song seems to be identical, except it continues for an extra minute or so instead of fading out as the song does on the original album. It doesn't sound like theres any fadeout in this version and it is indeed the whole song and probably should have been labled as the "full version" of the song. Real Cool Time takes 1 and 2 are purely instrumental and sound different than album version. Ditto for the Little Doll takes.

Overall, sound quality is very consistent and well mixed. The Cale mixes are of lesser quality but that's probably because of their source. The only flaw with the package is the speed of the Cale mixes which must be brought to Rhino's attention.
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 1:28 am

Can someone post pics of the box and the disks, I'd like to see what the mispressed CDs look like.
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seventeen

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 10:01 am

Steve, so I'm guessing now someone could compile on CD a longer version of the first LP, putting all the available longer versions of the songs ? How much would it clock in timewise ?
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steve2787



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 10:45 am

To answer your question seventee, a longer version of the LP with Asthma Attack included would be 48:59. Without Asthma Attack would be 42:22.

We Will Fall (Extended Version) is 11:25
No Fun (Full Version) is 6:51
Ann (Full Version) is 8:03
Asthma Attack is 6:28

Back on the topic of the Cale mixes, has anyone else listened to I Wanna Be Your Dog? The slowness is the most evident on this song. The intro fuzz is comically long and out of tune. Iggy's vocals are also rediculously slow. He sounds retarded (more than he usually does Laughing)
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seventeen

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 6:38 pm

Is Asthma attack from the same sessions ? Sorry if I missed an episode
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 8:25 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stooges-S-T-2CD-Rhino-Handmade-2010-Iggy-Pop-Rare-/320525799742?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Music_CDs&hash=item4aa0d3913e


pics from ebay
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seventeen

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun May 02, 2010 8:51 pm

sold for 25 $ ! That's cheeky !
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