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 First album new edition on Rhino Handmade

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Natalie
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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:42 am

Likewise!
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:46 am

So can we assume if this sells decently that they'll release funhouse again in a 7X7" boxset with funhouse + alternate takes and unganos?

also have Rhino said anything about the rerelease of funhouse sessions, i remember voting for it to be rereleased but i havent heard which product was chosen


HJW
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Chris Moise



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:27 am

Garageman wrote:
I would've expected them to release the Cale-mixes as a limited, numbered "alternative album" or something like that coupled with whatever outtakes they now have. Why include the original album, which everyone already must own, at least if they're going to buy this?

I'd rather have preferred a box like the "Complete Fun House Sessions".

I don't know for sure but I think the reason we are getting multiple takes of Little Doll and Real Cool Time is because is because those are the only session tapes that were found.

I don't think the Cale mixes are good enough to release as a stand alone release with bonus tracks.
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Garageman

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:36 am

Chris Moise wrote:


I don't know for sure but I think the reason we are getting multiple takes of Little Doll and Real Cool Time is because is because those are the only session tapes that were found.

I don't think the Cale mixes are good enough to release as a stand alone release with bonus tracks.

I don't mind getting all the surviving alternative takes of every song from the first album sessions, and I also want to hear the Cale-mix in it's entirety. I'm just questioning Rhino Handmade's policy of making completists like me buy the first album all over again.

To me it seems like their company policy has changed - and not for the better.
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StoogeFan



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:57 pm

looking forward to hearing the rest of the John Cale mixes and the outakes. I though the first reissue was grat. Is Asthma Attack going to be on the CD's or only on the vinyl? It is great all this stuff is coming out, I just hope I can scrape the money together before all the limited edition stuff gets snapped up.
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:59 pm

John Cale has been made aware of the running speed issue with his mixes on the forthcoming release...word is its probably too late to stop the release, but the matter will be looked into in the next day or so.
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Tyronehell

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:20 pm

There now way on earth am I parting with money for this if the Cale tracks are playing at the wrong speed. This would be a great release but come on Rhino get it sorted!
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:29 am

gazatthebop wrote:
John Cale has been made aware of the running speed issue with his mixes on the forthcoming release...word is its probably too late to stop the release, but the matter will be looked into in the next day or so.

Have you heard the Cale mixes directly from the Rhino CD already?
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:46 am

no, not heard the handmade album, just the samples... which are slow. Cale was flying back to the US from a gig in Poland yesterday his management will look into it though she believes its too late to stop.
Hopefully there was just an error in streaming and it'll be ok. They are so slow its going to be a bad mistake if they come out that way on the official release
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Garageman

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:25 pm

Maybe they should let Easy Action handle the Unganos -tape.
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StoogesMySpaceAdmin

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:45 pm

gazatthebop wrote:
i would swap five copies of the raw power deluxe for one copy of the handmade "Stooges",
i have heard the deluxe RP and am not impressed!

Why are you not impressed? Neutral
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:51 pm

i dont think the new remastered version is much different to the old one. I have since changed my mind about the live CD, that gets better every listen. The extra tracks i think should have stayed in the vaults and the whole package could fit on two cd's not three. Finally i love that 1st stooges album so much....
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StoogesMySpaceAdmin

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:02 am

I see. Not having heard the new cds, I can't say. So, why do you feel that way about the remastered version? I'm gonna guess and say you compared it with the late 80s cd, not the Iggy remix.

What's wrong with the extra tracks?

That's fine, it's a great album. I feel 'Raw Power' is the better of the 2, however.
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rabid_fish

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:00 am

nop. always prefered the first two...
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Chris Moise



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:54 am

Garageman wrote:

I don't mind getting all the surviving alternative takes of every song from the first album sessions, and I also want to hear the Cale-mix in it's entirety. I'm just questioning Rhino Handmade's policy of making completists like me buy the first album all over again.

I imagine they (the band, label) view the Cale mix as more of an historical curio than something representative of their debut and thus don't want it released out of the context of the real thing. That and they make more if we buy it again. The Cale mix is an interesting listen for sure but really is well inferior to the released mixes. I take your point and it is a fair one but with physical media on it's last leg we"re going to see more and more limited edition, specialty sets designed at collectors. I'm just glad more outtakes are geting 'out there'. Whether you buy it or not you will get to hear more Stooges material from 1969. That can't be a bad thing..
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StoogesFan



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:41 pm

Guys,

there have een several comments regarding tracks playing at the 'wrong' speed. As someone who has participated in sound studio work, I think a few facts are in order.

It should be remembered that we are dealing with analogue tapes here, and as such there is NO guarantee that anything will be heard at the exact speed at which it was recorded. There are several reasons for this.

Firstly, there will be a very minute difference between recording and playback speeds because the tape transits the heads slightly differently for each function. This difference should not be noticeable during playback but may become so on older machines.

Secondly, oxide degradation will leave a slight deposit on the heads which will slow down tape transit to a variable degree. This happens regardless of the age of the tape. Should this happen during the recording stage, the recorded material will be slightly faster when the tape is played at its 'normal' speed. A similar occurrence at mixdown will have the reverse effect. I have personally run a 2-inch tape at mixdown where the total duration was 30 minutes. By the time of the last track, the tape machine was running several rpm slower than when it started. Because the change was so gradual the band did not even notice!

Another factor will be the default recording/playback speeds pre-set by the factory that is producing the particular model of tape machine being used. These are never quite identical, but are usually within a few rpm of each other and therefore quite acceptable. However, if a master (2-track) tape is produced from a multi-track that is playing slowly, and this master is then used by the pressing plant on a machine that has a slightly faster playback speed, this 'double-whammy' will be enough to lop several seconds off each track. Obviously, the reverse set of circumstances will lengthen (slow) each track by a similar amount. As an example, the Stooges bootleg "Studio Rehearsals" contains well-known rehearsal tracks playing at the correct speed. Compare this disc with the 'Revenge' releases and see how much faster the tracks sound on these discs.

Sorry if all this has been a bit technical - or if many of you already knew this stuff - but I am just trying to say that the Cale mixes on this new release may actually be closer to the correct speed than you realise.
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:11 pm

Thanks. That makes sense to me. But you are taking a few seconds not 12% slower.
Col Tom Parker was famous for Elvis' live tracks playing too fast, more tracks per side hence more publishing royalties...maybe the new trend is slowing them down cos there's not enough material to fill a collectors cd!

In my earlier comment i was comparing the new remaster with the original cd not the iggy remix.
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:41 pm

Any update on the wrong speed Cale mixes?
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:18 pm

Thanks StoogesFan, that explains how and why that slow speed can occur.
- But not why it remains uncorrected

Since the Cale mixes are from the same master-takes as the regular version it should be
very easy and only take few time to adapt the length of the wrong-speed-Cale versions to
the correct version. This is no old 1928 78rpm recording where nobody knows what's the
"right" speed. If all fails you still know what key Ron's guitar is in...
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StoogesFan



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:09 pm

OUTBURST wrote:
Thanks StoogesFan, that explains how and why that slow speed can occur.
- But not why it remains uncorrected

Since the Cale mixes are from the same master-takes as the regular version it should be
very easy and only take few time to adapt the length of the wrong-speed-Cale versions to
the correct version. This is no old 1928 78rpm recording where nobody knows what's the
"right" speed. If all fails you still know what key Ron's guitar is in...

It would really depend on whether or not the mastering engineer was a Stooges fan!

Imagine the scene: The engineer is sitting in his studio, when someone hands him a bunch of tapes and says "master them". It is almost certain that the tracks would have been recorded at a tape speed of 15 ips, so the engineer sets his tape machine to 15 ips and starts his work. In the absense of gross errors (ie: when the speed is so wrong that it is instantly noticeable even if the material is unfamiliar), he has no choice other than to take it as fact that the speed is correct. In any event, he does not have the authority to change the running speed without specific permission to do so.
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:32 pm

Ok, StoogesFan, I understand that.
But why is it called "Rhino Handmade" then? Razz

Anyway, if I buy it I will correct it myself, so I better stop lamenting.
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:13 am

no update from Cale's management...just that Cale's busy preparing for a concert in Rome tomorrow.
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Ilmostro



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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:08 pm

Only a few more days on this one. Feel a bit ripped off but still cant f-ing wait !
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:11 pm

I live in the uk and hoped i would have had a message that it had been dispatched. Hope its release date is not delayed. At last i can get rid of that old original UK LP.
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: First album new edition on Rhino Handmade   Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Is it just me in thinking has Rhino gone downhill since their reshuffle?

Everything they used to put out was great and lovingly done - this Cale speed thing is a major cock up, and they haven't responded to several emails I sent them in the past 3/4 months.

This statement on the website is basically PR bullshit -

"A living, breathing human is here to help from 8am 8pm ET, every day excluding holidays. And all other times there's a very friendly robot that will relay your message to us promptly.

We look forward to hearing from you!"
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