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 The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off

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Smokocaster

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PostSubject: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:46 pm

I discovered this forum tonite, I had a look around.

The Industry shit all over the Stooges for decades. About five years ago, the industry, running out of cashflow, noticed the Stooges. "Guitar World" magazine ran tablature of the '1969' solo, which is so far beyond the concept, laughter is choked.

I've got a shitload of Stooges live bootlegs, I got "I Gotta Right' on a Bomp single in '85, I got 'Sick Of You' and 'Open Up And Bleed' on vinyl back then.

Stooges are one of the alltime great rock and roll bands, this music has always been there for me.

There is next to nothing on the 'Raw Power' reissue you haven't heard before. Remastered? I'm a sound engineer, remastering is little more than fiddling with EQ.

The best of it is out there, it has been for at least 20 years. Fuck the 'music industry', once and forever.
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stooges

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:54 pm

welcome on the forum Smile
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Radiobirdman73

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:03 pm

[quote="Smokocaster"] I'm a sound engineer, remastering is little more than fiddling with EQ.quote]

Welcome to the group - they're must be at least 20-30 of you 'Sound engineers' on here now, so you'll be in good company
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c-deep



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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:10 pm

Smokocaster wrote:
I discovered this forum tonite, I had a look around.
Remastered? I'm a sound engineer, remastering is little more than fiddling with EQ.
Welcome to the board, but what kind of engineer are you if mastering for you is little more than fiddling with EQ?
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boogie

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:13 pm

1969 tab on guitar world?Never seen that...
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scoh



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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:25 pm

Smokocaster wrote:
I discovered this forum tonite, I had a look around.

The Industry shit all over the Stooges for decades. About five years ago, the industry, running out of cashflow, noticed the Stooges. "Guitar World" magazine ran tablature of the '1969' solo, which is so far beyond the concept, laughter is choked.


That doesn't surprise me. I used to regularly read various American guitar magazines when I was learning to play a few years ago. Occasionally they'd tab a punk song, but invariably they would overcomplicate the chords.

I got the impression a number of times that whoever was doing the transcribing held a lot of music theory qualifications and took it upon himself to tab the songs "properly" rather than how they were originally played. Mad
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studioguy

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:51 pm

c-deep wrote:
Smokocaster wrote:
I discovered this forum tonite, I had a look around.
Remastered? I'm a sound engineer, remastering is little more than fiddling with EQ.
Welcome to the board, but what kind of engineer are you if mastering for you is little more than fiddling with EQ?

There's a lot more to it than just EQ, and Mastering for vinyl (which of course Raw Power was at the time) is almost a form of witchcraft, if any of my bands are pressing vinyl, I won't even attempt it.
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MJG196

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:00 pm

Smokocaster wrote:
There is next to nothing on the 'Raw Power' reissue you haven't heard before. Remastered? I'm a sound engineer, remastering is little more than fiddling with EQ.

Welcome to the forum, but you just made yourself sound incredibly uninformed.
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Smokocaster

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 4:56 am

Yes, that was a thoughtless statement on my part.
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Perdu

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 8:46 am

There was tablature on "Search And Destroy" back in 1977. How do I know? I commissioned it and put it in a book! study
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MJG196

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 5:50 pm

The thing is, us fans have always found ways to rip the industry off! Whether it was dubbing cassettes, Napster, or burning CD-Rs. I definitely think that the beginning of the end for the music industry was MTV. The music took a backseat to the visuals. There are other things the music industry did to screw itself. Off the top of my head:

- Keeping new CDs at US $15+

- Spending hundreds of thousands for music videos of a relatively small number of bands...and nothing on anyone else

- Empowering MTV to sell their product

I think artificially inflating the price of CDs was the BIG mistake. Can some high school kid afford to buy that? No. Can that kid afford to buy a spool of 100 CD-Rs and record all of their friends' CDs? You're goddamned right! And we all did it. I think now, bands realize they need to tour. They need to PLAY. Follow the Ramones M.O. and tour, tour, tour, sell merch, sell merch, and tour.

That's why I don't really care about the prices of this box set or that box set. How much official Stooges material do you have (not YOU Smokocaster, I mean in general) that you didn't pay for? So spending $60 isn't that big a deal for me. Same goes for the SOnic's Rendezvous box set. That thing was $70! But I know that for decades, none of those guys earned a single dime. I am more than happy to spend money on that.

I think the Rolling Stones are bigger than the rest of the industry now. Did you see how many different options you have for purchasing the new Exile On Main Street remaster?! They range from $14 - $160, and they have other stuff at more than $2500 (for signed prints): http://rollingstones.shop.bravadousa.com/Dept.aspx?cp=150_34383

In summary, I see people bitching about the 20 quid the new Stooges thumb-drive is going to be, but think of all those bootlegs you have (free). Think of how you are gonna run home and look at the YouTube videos of the show (free). Or maybe you'll hunt down the show on a torrent site (free) They are trying to give you some extra "bonus material" on the thumb-drive. Bands are making their own decisions/choices now...which is good for everyone.
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seventeen

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 9:29 pm

Look I paid for every Stooges record I own good dollar when it mattered to Iggy and the band and when they needed the money. I also bought every single Iggy solo record, just by principle, to support him.

However with the latest 1st album reissue at 50$, Rhino gone too far, and with the Legacy RP reissue which is badly compiled, I'm drawing the line and won't ever be buying any new Stooges product ever again, save Kill City remix because it's not on a major label.
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 9:47 pm

seventeen wrote:
Look I paid for every Stooges record I own good dollar when it mattered to Iggy and the band and when they needed the money. I also bought every single Iggy solo record, just by principle, to support him.

However with the latest 1st album reissue at 50$, Rhino gone too far, and with the Legacy RP reissue which is badly compiled, I'm drawing the line and won't ever be buying any new Stooges product ever again, save Kill City remix because it's not on a major label.

Same here! (all bar the bit about Iggy solo records)
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MJG196

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 11:15 pm

seventeen wrote:
However with the latest 1st album reissue at 50$, Rhino gone too far, and with the Legacy RP reissue which is badly compiled, I'm drawing the line and won't ever be buying any new Stooges product ever again, save Kill City remix because it's not on a major label.

This makes no sense to me. So, you don't like one product, and you are now banning anything that comes out subsequent to it? Or are you saying you'll download illegally because a crappy deluxe packaging (in your opinion) gives you the right to rob the Stooges of money from this point forward? I'm confused...please explain.
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sat May 01, 2010 11:20 pm

For me, it's not a "total future ban", just a refusal to buy these two, and not because I don't like the packaging.
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seventeen

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sun May 02, 2010 9:58 am

No, I don't need to download stuff I already own just for a few tracks I don't, that I will only listen once or twice ever again.

I think apart from the Kill City remix, I'm done, I have the Fun House box set, the double CDs versions etc. Unless they release the embassy mix of RP, there's nothing they can do now to make me buy those same album again, especially at inflated prices. Now if the Rhino reissue was at 15$, that would make temptation knocking at the door again.
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Perdu

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Sun May 02, 2010 5:17 pm

Youtube probably remains the best cultural ingredient injected into my life, nostalgically viewed in the sweeping panorama of same, now that i''m no longer young. So cool when you think about it! You can watch the Madrid show practically at the same time it happened.
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boogie

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 03, 2010 8:03 pm

Perdu wrote:
There was tablature on "Search And Destroy" back in 1977. How do I know? I commissioned it and put it in a book! study

A book?Tell us more.... alien
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Perdu

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 03, 2010 8:29 pm

study An old book, written in 1977, published in early '78, completely out of print now, as its publishing source is extinct. The only online reference to it I've found remains its existence noted in some libraries. Heather Harris wrote this first book published in the US about the subject of punk rock and, since it was released under the aegis of A&M Records who wrangled publishing chores for more artists from different labels than one might suspect, it had tablature in it. There's a direct quote from one of the sections on the Stooges' influence here:
http://fastfilm1.blogspot.com/2010/03/i-photographed-2010-rock-and-i-roll.html
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Smokocaster

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 03, 2010 8:56 pm

MJG196 hit the point with "artificially inflating the price of CDs was the BIG mistake." Along that line, I recommed to you all Walter Yetnikoff's 'Howling At The Moon' for a blow-by-blow litany of how a record company deliberately rippped off artists and consumers, especially when CDs came along.
So cue MC Lars' track that samples "Passenger"
I don't want to deny a teenager the chance to hear 'Raw Power', but they won't pay $80 for a box set when they can downlooad if off a file-share site. That teen might pay $12 for a CD. It aint as if Jim Osterberg is writing down his income for the IRS. Scott Asheton never made a dent dime from the Stooges until they restarted touring. If a 14 yr old kid downloads, he/she might go see the band play live, and Scott will pick up some coin. If that kid can't download Stooges, they'll download something else.
It's the new paradigm. The music industry has been howling poor forever, they were screaming death when records were introduced, cos it's kill sheet music sales. So on and so forth. The music industry is still here, still raking in the cash, artists are still getting ripped off.
(onya, Perdu)
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Perdu

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 03, 2010 9:13 pm

Addenda: the music industry that still actually works WITH artists has wised up. For instance, box-setters like Easy Action know that the first volley of a release constitutes all the money they'll ever recoup before it goes viral, and prices accordingly. I certainly don't begrudge them this as they're the only ones shoving money at artists outside of the live performance sector. To wit, EA's first contact with the elusive Jimi Recca included the words "I've got money for ya!" (most of the blasts from my own past would have voiced something more along the lines of "I'm suing ya!") Evil or Very Mad
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boogie

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 03, 2010 11:03 pm

Thanks Perdu,maybe a copy or two will show up someday... Alien
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unheard78



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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 17, 2010 7:23 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for not having to pay inflated prices that don't really compensate the artists or the people who helped make the album a success that don't run the label and get paid the big bucks already, but I don't want to rip anyone off. The whole problem with online piracy, at least from where I'm sitting, is that people who poured their time and energy into making the music don't get paid and will get paid less in the future because the recorded product is now often being considered a loss before it's even created. It's even worse for independent artists when they spend their money and make practically nothing back. At the same time, reissues are worthless to me in general unless you make them really good. The Legacy edition of RP should have had all the outtakes available and such, and they could have fit them on the discs without a problem. RP on it's own is less than half the size of a single CD! On top of that, the mastering, while not bad, isn't that great and the purported finding of the Embassy reels should be a complete release rather than a sampler. It's just an excuse for the label to come back in a year or two and claim they have something new to charge for or to issue a SUPER DELUXE REISSUE with and hope for more money. You want fans who have purchased the album several times to pay $60 to $100 for a new deluxe edition, make it worthwhile. See if the band can sign the packages. Make all the findings available. Make the mastering the best it can be. Include historical documentation (The DVD was a good move here!) and photographs of every detail you can provide. I think the next move is including digital copies of the original multitracks for the fans to mix and trade. Records will continue to sell if the audience feels they have a vested interest in the artists and the material. A major label simply reissuing PART of what they've found and expecting us to pay out the wazoo is wrong.
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ashitanoramen

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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 17, 2010 8:06 pm

It's not rare we are upset with companies.I'm glad with the deluxe edition but I know it could be a whole lot better,with the whole embassy mixes not just two songs(if are really from the embassy mixes..),more ottakes...I didn't purchase the stooges collectors edition yet, but what they have done to the Cale mixes is awful. But they know were gonna want those unreleased songs so surely we're gonna buy it sooner or later ,cause when you like something truely you don't want just to download it,you want to have it.In my case I'm gonna wait for the stooges collectors edition and buy the easy action popped package.But yeah seems they're ripping
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unheard78



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PostSubject: Re: The music INDUSTRY will always find a way to rip you off   Mon May 17, 2010 8:17 pm

I have a friend who has a watermarked promo of the Stooges Rhino Handmade release so I've gotten to listen to it already. Unfortunately it had none of the artwork, but that's okay. He didn't have the Rhino deluxe edition so I showed him that and he was rather surprised. I think there were a total of seven tracks on the Handmade release that weren't on the deluxe version, four of which are Cale mixes, and one track from the deluxe that didn't make it to the handmade. Everything sounds really nice on it apart from the Cale mixes which are just "Not Right". Wink Honestly don't know how they could have messed up a high-profile release like this. In fact, they probably should have just released it as a single disc collection of the Cale mixes (mastered properly of course) with the unreleased takes rather than make people pay out the butt for a box that is pretty much the same as the five year old deluxe retail edition. I'm sure the packaging is great, but it simply feels like abuse on the label's part.
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