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 Bring back Bowie

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Radiobirdman73

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Wed May 05, 2010 10:24 pm

the idea that they NEED eachother is pretty ludicrous. Yes - they both fed off eachother creatively for a period of time but I don't think either one requires the other to develop something good. Besides - Iggy's got James to work with again, why the fuck would he need the carrot top?

aside from that - i'd be interested in hearing another Iggy album that had some Bowie help. Who wouldn't?
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neven



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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Wed May 05, 2010 10:31 pm

I was surprised that bowie was not involved at all in the raw power reissue.
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Iguanas

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Thu May 06, 2010 12:50 am

Aku wrote:


But there's little truth in there...David Bowie needs Iggy Pop...workin with Iggy was the only time David Bowie made any decent music. Yes, David Bowie needs Iggy, but Iggy sure as hell dont need Bowie at all....

1972 The Stooges broke up. Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies, no money. Bowie called him to London and helps him to issue the album Raw Power.

1976 Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies, no money (again). Bowie called him on Station to Station tour, he made music for two Iggy's the best solo albums, The Idiot and Lust For Life, he played on The Idiot 1977 tour and he gave the necessary publicity for Iggy's big return to the scene.

1983 Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies, no money (again). Bowie publishes the song „China Girl“ on the album „Let's Dance“ . Iggy earn money for the copyrights and it saves him from total bankruptcy.

1984 Bowie publishes Iggy's songs on the album „Tonight“ . Iggy earn money for the copyrights and it has helped him to return to music.

1986 Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies. He came at Bowie with a demo tape and asked for help. Bowie helped him on album Blah-Blah-Blah and find a publisher. IGGY HAS RETURNED TO MUSIC.

The truth is that Iggy is made a huge impact on Bowie, but I think that Bowie's help was always sincere. Bowie was the big Stooges fan and he was in love with Iggy. Of course, he has earned too, but then he was already a rich rock star....
I think that sometimes needs to be objective.
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ziggy

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Thu May 06, 2010 1:25 am

Iggy clearly needed Bowie (or someone, but Bowie played the part) commercialy.
Maybe he didn't really need him artisticaly.
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Aku



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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Thu May 06, 2010 1:34 am

Iguanas wrote:


The truth is that Iggy is made a huge impact on Bowie, but I think that Bowie's help was always sincere. Bowie was the big Stooges fan and he was in love with Iggy. Of course, he has earned too, but then he was already a rich rock star....
I think that sometimes needs to be objective.

Yes. I agree...Iggy needed Bowie's help and it was sincere, and Iggy has often given David the credit were its due...but in my humple opinion Iggy never really needed David artisticaly.
Iggy has done lot of great work without Bowie...even before they ever even met.
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sweet_sixteen



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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Thu May 06, 2010 3:54 am

I doubt Bowie would need Iggy's creative input if he decided to write a new album...after all, what new material has Iggy put out in the last decade that would put him in a position to offer advice?
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TV-Eye

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Fri May 07, 2010 7:41 pm

Iguanas wrote:
Aku wrote:


But there's little truth in there...David Bowie needs Iggy Pop...workin with Iggy was the only time David Bowie made any decent music. Yes, David Bowie needs Iggy, but Iggy sure as hell dont need Bowie at all....

1972 The Stooges broke up. Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies, no money. Bowie called him to London and helps him to issue the album Raw Power.

1976 Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies, no money (again). Bowie called him on Station to Station tour, he made music for two Iggy's the best solo albums, The Idiot and Lust For Life, he played on The Idiot 1977 tour and he gave the necessary publicity for Iggy's big return to the scene.

1983 Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies, no money (again). Bowie publishes the song „China Girl“ on the album „Let's Dance“ . Iggy earn money for the copyrights and it saves him from total bankruptcy.

1984 Bowie publishes Iggy's songs on the album „Tonight“ . Iggy earn money for the copyrights and it has helped him to return to music.

1986 Iggy has no group, no contract with record companies. He came at Bowie with a demo tape and asked for help. Bowie helped him on album Blah-Blah-Blah and find a publisher. IGGY HAS RETURNED TO MUSIC.

The truth is that Iggy is made a huge impact on Bowie, but I think that Bowie's help was always sincere. Bowie was the big Stooges fan and he was in love with Iggy. Of course, he has earned too, but then he was already a rich rock star....
I think that sometimes needs to be objective.

This had to be said.
Moreover, as I already said somewhere else on the forum, the two best Iggy solo albums are The Idiot and Lust for Life, made with Bowie.

But now, Iggy's life and career are so far from Bowie's. They don't "need" each other anymore. That's why they probably will not work together anymore.
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Fri May 07, 2010 9:51 pm

Iggy has always needed someone "artistically", he was only ever a singer/lyricist, where did you think the music was coming from?

First of all he needed Ron and the original line-up of The Stooges, who provided all the music on the first two albums. Second he needed James and the later line-up to provide all the music for Raw Power and the post RP songs (Yeah, yeah, he came up with the chords for "I Got A Right" all by himself, the exception that proves the rule). Third he needed James to provide all the music for Kill City. He needed Bowie after that, and god knows who once you get out into the, for me, uncharted waters of his later solo career.

Easy test, re does Iggy need people "artistically" ...

Imagine any Stooges song you like but without Iggy's vocals, still sounds pretty fucking amazing, right?

Now imagine it with Iggy's vocals back, but no band.
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MJG196

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Sat May 08, 2010 3:30 pm

Troll. Fuck off.
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Sat May 08, 2010 3:32 pm

MJG196 wrote:
Troll. Fuck off.

Me?
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tori amos ROCKS

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Sat May 08, 2010 3:40 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
MJG196 wrote:
Troll. Fuck off.

Me?

Nah, think he means me...It's a love thing Love
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Iguanas

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Sun May 09, 2010 3:49 am

Petrie Terrace wrote:
Iggy has always needed someone "artistically", he was only ever a singer/lyricist, where did you think the music was coming from?

First of all he needed Ron and the original line-up of The Stooges, who provided all the music on the first two albums. Second he needed James and the later line-up to provide all the music for Raw Power and the post RP songs (Yeah, yeah, he came up with the chords for "I Got A Right" all by himself, the exception that proves the rule). Third he needed James to provide all the music for Kill City. He needed Bowie after that, and god knows who once you get out into the, for me, uncharted waters of his later solo career.

Easy test, re does Iggy need people "artistically" ...

Imagine any Stooges song you like but without Iggy's vocals, still sounds pretty fucking amazing, right?

Now imagine it with Iggy's vocals back, but no band.

I listened to some of Iggy's rehearsals with Ivan Kral. Iggy is a hundred times interrupted the song and explained to musicians in the group how he wants to sounds some parts of the song, but his job in the Stooges was not writing music. His job was to write lyrics and sing, as in most groups. Ron's job was to figure out guitar riff, and Scott and Dave have made the background. Nobody expected that Iggy wrote the music.

The truth is that The Stooges music without Iggy's voice as great too, but also the fact that his stage performance was crucial to the legend of The Stooges lives to this day.
New Order, Destroy All Monsters, Dark Carnival, Sonic's Rendezvous Band, Dodge Main ... These are all great groups, but none has made a commercial success. Why? Unfortunately people are more interesting than the blood ... and the music stays in the background.

Now, Iggy has a Virgin. He no longer needs Bowie. Smile
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krugersoldier

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Mon May 10, 2010 6:14 pm

The emphasis of this is totally wrong and shows lack of knowledge of songwriting. Ron or James often came up with a riff but many of the great songs were arranged by Iggy and would have remained as riffs without his input. bands are always a chemistry thing but Iggy would for sure have been a star and an important songwriter without the other guys, vice versa pretty unlikely. This in no way diminishes what great musicians all of the Stooges are, its just that reality gets a little distorted on this board sometimes. Record companies had plans for Iggy to work with all kinds of people (Rick Derringer,Edgar Broughton,Third World War spring to mind) he was smart enough to go his own way but im sure those other projects would have also turned out excellent music, he is the great artist, the others are great musicians, its a different ball game. A good example would be Mick Taylor, as good a guitar player as JW but without Mick and Keith, get my drift?
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Aku



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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Tue May 11, 2010 12:55 am

krugersoldier wrote:
The emphasis of this is totally wrong and shows lack of knowledge of songwriting. Ron or James often came up with a riff but many of the great songs were arranged by Iggy and would have remained as riffs without his input. bands are always a chemistry thing but Iggy would for sure have been a star and an important songwriter without the other guys, vice versa pretty unlikely. This in no way diminishes what great musicians all of the Stooges are, its just that reality gets a little distorted on this board sometimes. Record companies had plans for Iggy to work with all kinds of people (Rick Derringer,Edgar Broughton,Third World War spring to mind) he was smart enough to go his own way but im sure those other projects would have also turned out excellent music, he is the great artist, the others are great musicians, its a different ball game. A good example would be Mick Taylor, as good a guitar player as JW but without Mick and Keith, get my drift?

Yes, I agree...

Remember James Williamson has said that he needed Iggy to write songs, and he said in his Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame speech " I dont think any other band would have had me" and that James thanked Iggy for helping to make sense out of his riffs, cause only Iggy was able to "sing them like songs"
Scott also pointed out in his Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame speech, that he and Ron had a band called Dirty Shames but "iggy made our dreams come true" ...

Those guys were (and still are ) great musicians, but they would have been nothing without Iggy..or at least, there would have never been anything like The Stooges if it wasn't for Iggy´s input... People attend to put iggy down, cause he's famous, rich and all, but the truth of the matter is..that without Iggy, - none-of us would be on this forum..

Mike Watt has also stated several times how they need the boss - and that Stooges have rehearsals without Iggy, - but it's nothing like it without him.
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Triskell



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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Tony Visconti would be great if you want a 70's Bowie sound ... and somebody obviously thought that's right for Iggy and the Stooges, since they brought in Bowie to mix "Raw Power"! (I think I agree with them, actually, though your mileage may vary.)
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Iguanas

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PostSubject: Re: Bring back Bowie   Tue May 11, 2010 5:45 pm

There are several ways to write the song and there are no rules. Iggy has not worked in the same way with Ron, James, Bowie, Kral or Whitney.
Ron Asheton described the work on the first album with these words:
"We had no more tunes so we brain-stormed back at the hotel. I locked myself up and made the simplest tunes I could, like "Not Right" and "Real cool Time". I got hold of Iggy and said, "Come in here, check out these tunes." He started writing lyrics and we arranged them. The next day we rehearsed the new stuff. Then it was recording time." (from Per's book)

So, first Ron made „the skeleton“ of the songs, then Iggy wrote the lyrics and then all worked on the arrangement, but in my opinion, crucial to their success is Iggy's stage performance.

Maybe, Natalie knows more about how they are doing the songs.

krugersoldier wrote:
The emphasis of this is totally wrong and shows lack of knowledge of songwriting.
I have knowledge of songwriting.
You can find info about my band in the Croatian rock encyclopedia. Smile
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