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 The Dolls vs The Stooges.

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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 6:59 pm

Likewise, anyone who says James Williamson's playing came from "no known musical vocabulary" has either never heard of Keith Richards and Jeff Beck, or, as in Iggy's case, is a pathological bullshitter.

The clue is in "Suddenly there were classics worthy of comparison to "Street Fighting Man" and "Jumping Jack Flash."
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 7:08 pm

I like both bands, but for me the Stooges stand the test of time better.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 7:13 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
Likewise, anyone who says James Williamson's playing came from "no known musical vocabulary" has either never heard of Keith Richards and Jeff Beck, or, as in Iggy's case, is a pathological bullshitter.

The clue is in "Suddenly there were classics worthy of comparison to "Street Fighting Man" and "Jumping Jack Flash."

Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 7:21 pm

Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 7:49 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

Yes - please elucidate my ignorance and your obvious intellectual supremacy once again. But first...

Can you draw a compositional comparison to Beck, or is it the technical virtuosity you're referring to?

Last time I checked, Beck doesn't even use a fucking pick - and James' playing is based on a lightning fast strum hand....with a pick. Jeff uses the tremolo bar like a separate instrument, whereas James doesn't use a tremolo at all. James plays riffs, whereas Jeff plays single note speed runs....shall I continue, or has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?

Oh I know - it must have been the haircut you were talking about, or the size of their cocks. prick
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 7:57 pm

Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

Yes - please elucidate my ignorance and your obvious intellectual supremacy once again. But first...

Can you draw a compositional comparison to Beck, or is it the technical virtuosity you're referring to?

Last time I checked, Beck doesn't even use a fucking pick - and James' playing is based on a lightning fast strum hand....with a pick. Jeff uses the tremolo bar like a separate instrument, whereas James doesn't use a tremolo at all. James plays riffs, whereas Jeff plays single note speed runs....shall I continue, or has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?

Oh I know - it must have been the haircut you were talking about, or the size of their cocks. prick


Hahaha, you're a funny guy, were your hands shaking when you typed that? (I bet they were)

It's pretty simple really, go familiarize yourself with his playing when he was in The Yardbirds, live and studio, and listen to the way he plays chords and especially leads, then, if you still can't hear it I suggest you take James Williamson's word for it, he's said it enough times over the years.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 7:59 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

I don't hear it either.
I'm not a Jeff Beck fan so I'm probably ignorant of his music, give me an example
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:04 pm

studioguy wrote:
Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

I don't hear it either.
I'm not a Jeff Beck fan so I'm probably ignorant of his music, give me an example

Like I said, go listen to The Yardbirds, or just take James Williamson's word for who James Williamson's influences were.
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boogie

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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:06 pm

The Yardbirds years.While i need somebody reminds me of Robby Krieger study
Anyway Raw Power is like La Bamba(to my ears...).
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:13 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
studioguy wrote:
Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

I don't hear it either.
I'm not a Jeff Beck fan so I'm probably ignorant of his music, give me an example

Like I said, go listen to The Yardbirds, or just take James Williamson's word for who James Williamson's influences were.

I'll have to give that a listen again, I know from reading his posts on FB that he is a Jeff Beck fan, but then most guitar players of James's age would have liked Jeff Beck/Yardbirds and Keith Richards/Stones.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:15 pm

The Weirdness isn't a very good release. I hope the do their legacy justice if they decide to record with JW.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:29 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

Yes - please elucidate my ignorance and your obvious intellectual supremacy once again. But first...

Can you draw a compositional comparison to Beck, or is it the technical virtuosity you're referring to?

Last time I checked, Beck doesn't even use a fucking pick - and James' playing is based on a lightning fast strum hand....with a pick. Jeff uses the tremolo bar like a separate instrument, whereas James doesn't use a tremolo at all. James plays riffs, whereas Jeff plays single note speed runs....shall I continue, or has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?

Oh I know - it must have been the haircut you were talking about, or the size of their cocks. prick


Hahaha, you're a funny guy, were your hands shaking when you typed that? (I bet they were)

It's pretty simple really, go familiarize yourself with his playing when he was in The Yardbirds, live and studio, and listen to the way he plays chords and especially leads, then, if you still can't hear it I suggest you take James Williamson's word for it, he's said it enough times over the years.

Seeing is believing and since you read it, it must be true, right? Right.

But - when you're talking about a musicial vocabulary, you're talking about what something sounds like - not what you've read about the player. My guess - Elmore James and Hubert Sumlin were influences too - does this mean he sounds like em' - nope. Sorry to disagree with you Pee-Tree (this is obviously where I went wrong), I don't hear it.

BTW - my hands WERE shaking, how did you know?
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:46 pm

Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Seeing is believing and since you read it, it must be true, right? Right.

But - when you're talking about a musicial vocabulary, you're talking about what something sounds like - not what you've read about the player. My guess - Elmore James and Hubert Sumlin were influences too - does this mean he sounds like em' - nope. Sorry to disagree with you Pee-Tree (this is obviously where I went wrong), I don't hear it.

BTW - my hands WERE shaking, how did you know?

How old are you?
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 8:49 pm

Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh yeah, I hear lots of JEFF BECK is James' playing. Just tons.

You want a medal for being ignorant? Or just the chance to show it off?

Yes - please elucidate my ignorance and your obvious intellectual supremacy once again. But first...

Can you draw a compositional comparison to Beck, or is it the technical virtuosity you're referring to?

Last time I checked, Beck doesn't even use a fucking pick - and James' playing is based on a lightning fast strum hand....with a pick. Jeff uses the tremolo bar like a separate instrument, whereas James doesn't use a tremolo at all. James plays riffs, whereas Jeff plays single note speed runs....shall I continue, or has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?

Oh I know - it must have been the haircut you were talking about, or the size of their cocks. prick


Hahaha, you're a funny guy, were your hands shaking when you typed that? (I bet they were)

It's pretty simple really, go familiarize yourself with his playing when he was in The Yardbirds, live and studio, and listen to the way he plays chords and especially leads, then, if you still can't hear it I suggest you take James Williamson's word for it, he's said it enough times over the years.

Seeing is believing and since you read it, it must be true, right? Right.

But - when you're talking about a musicial vocabulary, you're talking about what something sounds like - not what you've read about the player. My guess - Elmore James and Hubert Sumlin were influences too - does this mean he sounds like em' - nope. Sorry to disagree with you Pee-Tree (this is obviously where I went wrong), I don't hear it.

BTW - my hands WERE shaking, how did you know?

To take this argument to the extreme, then all Rock Guitar players are ripping off Son House and all shredders are ripping off Paganini.

He might have taken some technique (we all do), but the Stooges play or sound nothing like the Yardbirds, at least to me
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 9:01 pm

Sick of you and Happenings ten years time ago.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 10:09 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:


How old are you?

Oh gawd - here's where you break out with the ubiquitous 'i'm older and therefore know better' argument. Or the old 'I saw the Stooges back in '73 - so I like em' better' argument. It's ok sir, we realize you're old enough to have earned your curmudgeon stripes - each one of your pompous-ass posts reminds us of this regularly.

Jeff beck and James Williamson are about as similar as Peter Green and Slash. They both play guitar - something Robert Johnson and his mentor Son House perfected long before either of them was born.

You're just pissed because someone finally called you on your bullshit put-down posts and you can't deal with it.

oh shit - my hands are shaking again....
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 10:12 pm

Hey guys, without picking sides (and there is definitely a winner here), please let's calm down. If you are going to blast someone, blast Tori Amos Rocks for posting this idiotic thread. Not every thread needs to devolve into a flame war. Calm down, take a step back, and relax.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 10:31 pm

MJG196 wrote:
If you are going to blast someone, blast Tori Amos Rocks for posting this idiotic thread. Not every thread needs to devolve into a flame war. Calm down, take a step back, and relax.

Exactly.

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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 10:59 pm

Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh gawd - here's where you break out with the ubiquitous 'i'm older and therefore know better' argument. Or the old 'I saw the Stooges back in '73 - so I like em' better' argument. It's ok sir, we realize you're old enough to have earned your curmudgeon stripes - each one of your pompous-ass posts reminds us of this regularly.

Jeff beck and James Williamson are about as similar as Peter Green and Slash. They both play guitar - something Robert Johnson and his mentor Son House perfected long before either of them was born.

You're just pissed because someone finally called you on your bullshit put-down posts and you can't deal with it.

oh shit - my hands are shaking again....

Sorry, I was asking because, figuring you were probably about my age, I was going to say "Don't you think you're a little old for Pee Tree?".

That you have a long running and deep rooted issue with me, or rather the "me" you've imagined, is pretty clear ...

"Yes - please elucidate my ignorance and your obvious intellectual supremacy once again" , "has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?", "Sorry to disagree with you Pee-Tree (this is obviously where I went wrong)" , "You're just pissed because someone finally called you on your bullshit put-down posts and you can't deal with it. "

All that "once again" and "finally called you" business makes you look like a stalker. I have no idea who you are or what your problem is, beyond some fantasy you seem to be having about who and what I am, and I really couldn't care less about it or you.

For the record, you haven't "called me" on anything, all you've done is disagreed.

You wrote ...

"Last time I checked, Beck doesn't even use a fucking pick - and James' playing is based on a lightning fast strum hand....with a pick." (Jeff Beck played with a pick all the way through his time with The Yardbirds, there may be one or two songs were he doesn't, but for the most part he did.)

"Jeff uses the tremolo bar like a separate instrument, whereas James doesn't use a tremolo at all. James plays riffs, whereas Jeff plays single note speed runs...."(I can't think of a single Yardbirds era song were Beck even touches a tremolo arm, his main guitars during the Yardbirds didn't even have tremolo arms. Re riffs and runs, I think you are just totally unfamiliar with Jeff Beck's guitar playing in the period you're discussing.)

"shall I continue, or has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?"

Do as you please, like I said, I don't know or care who you are, but be careful of accusing people of not knowing "what the fuck they're talking about", especially when you're going to try and prove the point by making a grand display of the fact that you don't either.

I think what you should be open about is that your posts in relation to me clearly have nothing at all to do with what I thought we started out debating, namely if JW's guitar style appeared out of thin air, and are all about some weird psycho fantasy you've been cooking up in your head for god know's how long.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 11:29 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Oh gawd - here's where you break out with the ubiquitous 'i'm older and therefore know better' argument. Or the old 'I saw the Stooges back in '73 - so I like em' better' argument. It's ok sir, we realize you're old enough to have earned your curmudgeon stripes - each one of your pompous-ass posts reminds us of this regularly.

Jeff beck and James Williamson are about as similar as Peter Green and Slash. They both play guitar - something Robert Johnson and his mentor Son House perfected long before either of them was born.

You're just pissed because someone finally called you on your bullshit put-down posts and you can't deal with it.

oh shit - my hands are shaking again....

Sorry, I was asking because, figuring you were probably about my age, I was going to say "Don't you think you're a little old for Pee Tree?".

That you have a long running and deep rooted issue with me, or rather the "me" you've imagined, is pretty clear ...

"Yes - please elucidate my ignorance and your obvious intellectual supremacy once again" , "has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?", "Sorry to disagree with you Pee-Tree (this is obviously where I went wrong)" , "You're just pissed because someone finally called you on your bullshit put-down posts and you can't deal with it. "

All that "once again" and "finally called you" business makes you look like a stalker. I have no idea who you are or what your problem is, beyond some fantasy you seem to be having about who and what I am, and I really couldn't care less about it or you.

For the record, you haven't "called me" on anything, all you've done is disagreed.

You wrote ...

"Last time I checked, Beck doesn't even use a fucking pick - and James' playing is based on a lightning fast strum hand....with a pick." (Jeff Beck played with a pick all the way through his time with The Yardbirds, there may be one or two songs were he doesn't, but for the most part he did.)

"Jeff uses the tremolo bar like a separate instrument, whereas James doesn't use a tremolo at all. James plays riffs, whereas Jeff plays single note speed runs...."(I can't think of a single Yardbirds era song were Beck even touches a tremolo arm, his main guitars during the Yardbirds didn't even have tremolo arms. Re riffs and runs, I think you are just totally unfamiliar with Jeff Beck's guitar playing in the period you're discussing.)

"shall I continue, or has it become obvious again that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and just camp out here to make people look inferior with your witty and engaging commentary?"

Do as you please, like I said, I don't know or care who you are, but be careful of accusing people of not knowing "what the fuck they're talking about", especially when you're going to try and prove the point by making a grand display of the fact that you don't either.

I think what you should be open about is that your posts in relation to me clearly have nothing at all to do with what I thought we started out debating, namely if JW's guitar style appeared out of thin air, and are all about some weird psycho fantasy you've been cooking up in your head for god know's how long.

Wow. You really are insane.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 11:52 pm

Radiobirdman73 wrote:
Wow. You really are insane.

Google translator: "Er...I know you are but what am I?!"
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sat May 08, 2010 11:59 pm

This is extraordinarily lame. The Stooges and The Dolls were two of the great rock and roll bands ever. They were also friends (a fact not always good for their health). Both James Williamson and Johnny Thunders were huge Yardbirds fans, and both idolized Keith Richards.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sun May 09, 2010 2:03 am

TeddyB1018 wrote:
This is extraordinarily lame. The Stooges and The Dolls were two of the great rock and roll bands ever. They were also friends (a fact not always good for their health). Both James Williamson and Johnny Thunders were huge Yardbirds fans, and both idolized Keith Richards.


The first post that makes any sense including mine
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sun May 09, 2010 2:13 am

studioguy wrote:
TeddyB1018 wrote:
This is extraordinarily lame. The Stooges and The Dolls were two of the great rock and roll bands ever. They were also friends (a fact not always good for their health). Both James Williamson and Johnny Thunders were huge Yardbirds fans, and both idolized Keith Richards.


The first post that makes any sense including mine

And don't forget Iggy and Thunders were Rock 'N Roll brothers-in-law, dating the Starr sisters at the same time!
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PostSubject: Re: The Dolls vs The Stooges.   Sun May 09, 2010 2:26 am

MJG196 wrote:
boogie wrote:
If only the stooges had their own Bob Gruen..........
I don't understand how you can love the Stooges and hate the Dolls. Just as there is a Holy Trinity of British R&R (Beatles/Stones/Who), the influence of another trinity (VU/Stooges/Dolls) is just as influential.


MJG, I don't agree with this trinity idea the Dolls were not in the same league as Stooges, let alone The VU. They were recycling Chuck Berry with a NY drag aesthetic. There was nothing innovative about their sound. The next stage of NY innovation was Patti Smith, Television and then the likes of Mars and Teenage Jesus (who explicity rejected the tired Chuck Berry influence of UK punk and the NYDolls.
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