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 The 'I Got a Right' sessions

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mark



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PostSubject: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:46 pm

If we believe what the books tell us, from 17-21 July 1972 the Stooges were recording in Olympic Studios. These sessions were the source of I Got a Right and Gimme Some Skin, plus various one-take odds and ends like Money and Louie Louie, as documented on the first disc of Heavy Liquid.

Now here's the thing. That disc seems to me like it's the product of one day's work in the studio - 70ish minutes of music, mainly consisting of repeated takes of one song. If the dates are right, The Stooges were in there for five days. So where's the stuff that they recorded on the other four?

We do have I'm Sick of You, Scene of the Crime and Tight Pants - but according to the Black To Comm interview with Ron I'm Sick of You was recorded at RG Jones (probably a little later, maybe August '72 as they were doing the album at CBS by September), and I've always assumed that the other two songs were done at the same time as they always seem to travel together. So that doesn't get us any further.

And then there's the recent interview with James in Clash magazine where he says "we came over to London with a bunch of material from ‘1971’ [...] and so we went into some demo studios and recorded those tunes." Out of all the tracks from the pre-Raw Power sessions that have emerged, the only one they were playing in 1971 is I Got a Right. So maybe I'm reading too much into this, but James seems to be implying they may have recorded the rest of that '71 set - You Don't Want My Name, Big Time Bum and all the rest - around the same time as I Got a Right.

So are there some dusty Olympic Studios reels somewhere that have contain something that amounts to the lost Stooges album? All those lost songs from '71 that they didn't get to record for Elektra? And if so, where?!

Can anyone shed any light on any of this?
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Hectorlovesthestooges

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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:03 pm

I've heard there was a recording of "Fresh Rag" from these sessions...i hope it's true!!
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:58 pm

Hectorlovesthestooges wrote:
I've heard there was a recording of "Fresh Rag" from these sessions...i hope it's true!!
Wow! Shocked Were did you hear that? If this is true, wonder if there is somebody who could confirm this? Anyone got some hints of somebody? I can try to ask James on his facebook, for starters...
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:07 am

mark wrote:
If we believe what the books tell us, from 17-21 July 1972 the Stooges were recording in Olympic Studios. These sessions were the source of I Got a Right and Gimme Some Skin, plus various one-take odds and ends like Money and Louie Louie, as documented on the first disc of Heavy Liquid.

Now here's the thing. That disc seems to me like it's the product of one day's work in the studio - 70ish minutes of music, mainly consisting of repeated takes of one song. If the dates are right, The Stooges were in there for five days. So where's the stuff that they recorded on the other four?
The sleeve of the 'Heavy Liquid' disc reproduces an Olympic Studios tape box with a date 21/7/72 visible. The sleeve of Bomp's 'I Got A Right' CD reproduces Olympic tape boxes for 19/7/72, 20/7/72 and one other with no visible date. The only tracks listed on these boxes are 'I Got A Right' and 'Gimme Some Skin'. So maybe they did spend the whole time at Olympic on those tracks?

We also know from Carlton's notes on HL, that several further versions of 'I Got A Right' were omitted from HL. Without listening through, I'm also not sure how much of an overlap there is between HL and the Bomp disc.

Does anyone have a copy of 'Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell' on Golden Years records? I may be misrembering, but I've a feeling there may also have been a tape box or some recording details reproduced on this? (I think Carlton might have also had something to do with this release?) (The version of 'I Got A Right' on this is the very different 2:34 version not found on either HL or the Bomp release.)
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:12 am

The titles that were always mentioned, late seventies/eighties, as recorded in London but rejected by Mainman were "Fresh Rag" and "Nigger Man". So they seem like a pretty safe bet to have been demo'd here.

From a Creem article, April '74, ...

Iggy "We started recording this album, at enormous costs before we ever went into the studio. Like just for writing, James and I would go into a four track or eight track and spend ten hours in there just workin' on writin' tunes." ZEKE Z. ONLY KNOWS HOW MANY GREAT TITLES WERE LOST, BUT AMONG THOSE FROM THIS PERIOD: "FRESH RAG." LYRICS: "I CAN SMELL YOU WALKIN' DOWN THE STREET WITH YOUR FRESH RAG ON." SUNG AS THE WIFE OF A COLUMBIA PRODUCER HAPPENED TO BE PASSING IN THE CORRIDOR OUTSIDE AND TOOK IT, UH, PERSONALLY." (Their capitals, not mine)

From the same article, Iggy ... "We wrote a hundred tunes before we got ready to cut Raw Power, and then we wrote half the album in the studio."

How many, including Fresh Rag and Nigger Man, were demo'd as a full band, and how many were done Mick & Keef style, is anyone's guess.

R.G. Jones was a well known demo studio, the Stones and the Yardbirds both cut early sessions there, as did a young Bowie. They also had a deal going with the local Pye pressing plant and would do small runs of acetates and even vinyl singles, paid for by the artist, on their own "Oak" label.

My guess is Bowie is the most likely candidate to still have the demo's. He was a fan, and seemingly to everyone else involved, outside of the band, it was just business.



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Shakes



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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:14 am

andrew wrote:

Does anyone have a copy of 'Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell' on Golden Years records? I may be misrembering, but I've a feeling there may also have been a tape box or some recording details reproduced on this? (I think Carlton might have also had something to do with this release?) (The version of 'I Got A Right' on this is the very different 2:34 version not found on either HL or the Bomp release.)

i have this.

for photos there are images of iggy, petty cash vouchers and the receipt of flowers being sent to him by david bowie. pertaining to recorded songs in london there are the following:


death trip

alternate rough mix version recorded somewhere in england june/july 1972.

i got a right

this track was recorded several times during the summer of 1972 in london, mainly at trident studios and also at olympic studios [july 17th-21st]. this version is somewhat faster, but less aggressive than the original siamese records 7" single.
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andrew



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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:40 am

Shakes wrote:
i have this.

for photos there are images of iggy, petty cash vouchers and the receipt of flowers being sent to him by david bowie. pertaining to recorded songs in london there are the following:


death trip

alternate rough mix version recorded somewhere in england june/july 1972.

i got a right

this track was recorded several times during the summer of 1972 in london, mainly at trident studios and also at olympic studios [july 17th-21st]. this version is somewhat faster, but less aggressive than the original siamese records 7" single.
Thanks, I wasn't completely mis-remembering, then! I wonder if 'I Got A Right' was ever actually recorded at Trident? The 'Siamese Dogs' release on Skydog also says Trident Studios, but I have my doubts (especially as it says 1973!)

Going OT for a moment, does 'Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell' list any recording details for 'Rubber Legs' etc? I've a feeling this maybe the first place I saw the (probably incorrect) claim that these were from CBS studios.
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Shakes



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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:06 am

here are the notes per song listed in your pretty face is going to hell 1995 golden years/deadquick music/trident music international (GY008)


in the beginning there was iggy stooge.....

these recordings, all dating from 1972, give an amazing insight into one of the world's most bizarre bands rehearsing in the studio, in private, away from the media and the fans expectations of blood and outrage.

this album is a collection of tracks from The Stooges as they really were in 1972 as Iggy and the band were developing and refining their unique and highly influential sound and makes a valuable addition to any Stooges collection.

specific dates for the recording sessions are unclear due to the state of mind and body that the band members were in during their early seventies reign of terror.


head on

in october/november 1972 Iggy and the Stooges went into S.A.R. studios in los angeles to write and rehearse the follow up to the 'Raw Power' album and prepare for a 1973 tour. during this period, their management, mainman, prevented them from playing live shows whilst the band underwent improvement. they were also auditioning keyboard players to fill out their sound, the job eventually going to Scott Thurston. this version shows just how tight they really were despite all the rumours to the contrary.


death trip

alternate rough mix version recorded somewhere in england june/july 1972.


i got a right

this track was recorded several times during the summer of 1972 in london, mainly at trident studios and also at olympic studios [july 17th-21st]. this version is somewhat faster, but less aggressive than the original siamese records 7" single.


hard to beat & raw power

both these tracks are taken from the Detroit Radio station WABX broadcast of some of the early sessions for the 'Raw Power' album. both are quite different to the final album versions with backing vocals evident on Raw Power [omitted on LP] and Hard to Beat being a longer version.


cock in my pocket

this is the only time The Stooges recorded this song in the studio. the legendary 'Metallic K.O.' album features the only known live version. Keyboard duties on that were by Scott Thurston, but on this recording it is the mysterious 'Bob'!? Being kept in various studios was helping to improve the band considerably, which can be heard particularly on James Williamson's guitar break during this song. Recorded at S.A.R. studios L.A. October/November 1972.


rubber legs & pin point eyes

both these songs are jams recorded during rehearsals and as such have never been performed live. rubber legs is similar in style to cock in my pocket, a good rock 'n' roll jam while pin point eyes is more impromptu and starts with Iggy telling Scott Asheton to get behind the drums and then telling Ron and James that he wants to hear the blues.


johanna

this is an early version of the song featured on the brilliant 'Kill City' album. this version is considerably longer and features a Doors like keyboard sound courtesy of 'Bob' once again. Iggy once allegedly said "...I think I helped wipe out the sixties" - listening to this rare version, you know what he means.


open up and bleed


this is the classic Stooges track never released! this song was recorded several times with different lyrics, although this is an early version as the finished classic wasn't finally honed until the summer of 1973.


Carlton P. Sandercock & HKM.
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Hectorlovesthestooges

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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:29 am

ChuckN wrote:
Hectorlovesthestooges wrote:
I've heard there was a recording of "Fresh Rag" from these sessions...i hope it's true!!
Wow! Shocked Were did you hear that? If this is true, wonder if there is somebody who could confirm this? Anyone got some hints of somebody? I can try to ask James on his facebook, for starters...

I don't remember the source but I remember reading about the recording of Fresh Rag and Nigger Man, tell us when James replies to you please!!!
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:20 am

I heard that "Niggerman" was just another of countless titles for "Big Time Bum".
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:31 am

G, F#, E wrote:
I heard that "Niggerman" was just another of countless titles for "Big Time Bum".

Now you mention it...yeah it could be!!
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:42 am

"N**Ger Man", "Black Like Me" and "Dead Body" are all names for the same song. It's the song "Dead Body" on the " You want My Name " 4 CD set from Easy Action records.

Sorry, I won't even type that "n"word. I hate it.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:38 am

Hectorlovesthestooges wrote:

I don't remember the source but I remember reading about the recording of Fresh Rag and Nigger Man, tell us when James replies to you please!!!
Got a answer from James now. Unfortunately it was nothing too up-lifting. He don't deny it, but he write a short answer(about 71' recordings): "I don't believe we recorded anything other than I gotta right from that period".
Then I guess he don't put his entire soul into long questions from unknown people writing him on Facebook(I wouldn't). Anyway, It seems like his not 100% sure. The search is not over I'd say.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:18 pm

Anders,

The answer you received from James is consistent with the answers he gave Easy Action when they were preparing to release the 4 CD set.

At that time, nobody Carlton talked with could remember the songs. You might try asking James if he remembers what songs were played when the Elektra representatives went out to Ann Arbor in '71. After that visit, Elektra dropped the band. Maybe, just maybe, that will prompt or jog the right side of James' very smart brain.

Natalie
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:20 pm

Thinking about it some more.

If I'm not mistaken, James has denied on more than one occasion since his reappearance that Mainman ever rejected anything. I don't have the quotes to hand, but I'm pretty sure he's stuck to the story that older songs were just replaced by newer/better ones. Does anyone actually have a direct quote from a band member stating that Mainman rejected their first demo's?

The reason I'm asking is I'm now wondering if that whole tale might not have been hype on the part of someone like Nick Kent (or Iggy). It would help if I could remember the origin of that whole "Mainman said the demo's were 'too aggressive' for Bowie to be associated with" story, as I'm pretty sure that's where "Fresh Rag" and "Nigger Man" first got mentioned by name (in relation to London recordings). Maybe I'm wrong?

Same with that tale from Creem I quoted in my previous post, re the "wife of a Columbia producer" and "Fresh Rag", it could be true, but it's also great hype, and was written by another professional Iggy-booster. Having reread the whole article now, for the first time in years, I'm seriously skeptical about anything from an article that includes ... "NOT LIKE THE OTHER TIME LATER IN LONDON WHEN BOWIE SHOWED UP FOR A PRESS CONFERENCE DRUNK AND TRIED TO DISPLAY THE PLAY OF POWER OF HIS NEW EMPIRE TO THE WORLD BY GRABBING THE MIGHTY POP FOR A SLOPPY KISS, WHICH WAS MET WITH A FIST STRAIGHT IN THE FACE". (Their capitals, again)

And, probably most tellingly of all ... Lester Bangs: "Did you go through all those quaaludes?" , Pop: "Yeah... aww, shit, I didn't know you, uh..."

Or, it could all be completely true.

Any takers?





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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:43 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, James has denied on more than one occasion since his reappearance that Mainman ever rejected anything. I don't have the quotes to hand, but I'm pretty sure he's stuck to the story that older songs were just replaced by newer/better ones. Does anyone actually have a direct quote from a band member stating that Mainman rejected their first demo's?

James in the Clash interview...

"One thing that most people don’t know about those songs... Well, let me step back and say that we came over to London with a bunch of material from ‘1971’ - so we had ‘I Got A Right’ and ‘I’m Sick Of You’ and a bunch of stuff that we came over with, and that’s what we played at the Kings Cross gig, which was out only gig over there. We had all that stuff and we thought, ‘Hey, this is great; we should record some of this stuff’. And so we went into some demo studios and recorded those tunes, and later they were released, but we would keep taking them to MainMan, and MainMan would keep rejecting them. It became evident to us that Tony DeFries and MainMan, you know, they really didn’t understand our music. They didn’t like it and they didn’t see any potential for it to make hit records, which is what they wanted. We went on and on making these demos, but we couldn’t get anything they liked. Eventually, the thing that saved the whole thing was that MainMan got very much occupied with breaking David Bowie in the US, and so they quit paying attention to us. That allowed us to go into the studio unsupervised - no producer, no anything; just an engineer - and record those tracks the way we wanted to, and that’s what you got."

But then in the I-94 Bar interview, he does say I Got a Right etc never made it out "Just because we wrote newer things as we went along, and once it came time to actually record in the studio, we had a whole new set of material."

Question
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:48 pm

"record those tracks the way we wanted to, and that’s what you got."


I think he talks all along about the songs that made it to Raw Power.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:07 pm

Many thanks Mark, good quote!

I'm pretty sure he has said the opposite, ie they were just replaced by better songs, a few other places along the way. God knows what the truth of it is, though that first quote you provided seems way too detailed to just be the product of a foggy memory.

Interesting that he refers to the rejected demo's as being released later, meaning that the demos in question are the Siamese/Bomp tracks alone? Or just that he doesn't remember recording the other ones decades later?

So many questions ...



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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:08 pm

ziggy wrote:
"record those tracks the way we wanted to, and that’s what you got."


I think he talks all along about the songs that made it to Raw Power.

Very good point Ziggy!
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:02 pm

Petrie Terrace wrote:
ziggy wrote:
"record those tracks the way we wanted to, and that’s what you got."


I think he talks all along about the songs that made it to Raw Power.

Very good point Ziggy!

We would probably have to try and find the engineers for those sessions to get the real story.

James has been pretty consistent with his memories, at least from what I've read. Scott might be a good interview about that stuff as we've never really heard from him. Iggy not so much.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:02 am

Shakes wrote:
here are the notes per song listed in your pretty face is going to hell 1995 golden years/deadquick music/trident music international (GY008)

Thanks very much for that. So I was wrong about the 'CBS rehearsals' claim coming from here, but instead there is yet another probably wrong claim - that 'Head On' and 'Cock In My Pocket' come from S.A.R. Studios, LA, late '72. Was Bob Sheff even in the band then? Does anyone know when he joined?
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:14 am

For the record (not that it really matters) - the studio in L.A. is most probably S.I.R. (Studio Instrument Rentals) not S.A.R. They have been around for decades and are still going strong today.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:09 am

larry fine wrote:
For the record (not that it really matters) - the studio in L.A. is most probably S.I.R. (Studio Instrument Rentals) not S.A.R. They have been around for decades and are still going strong today.

i didn't mis-type S.A.R. for S.I.R. i know you're not claiming that at all, but i just wanted to let that be known. granted the expertise of many here, and the your pretty face is going to hell... cd release having outdated information; i would trust your comment about the studio.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:32 pm

larry fine wrote:
For the record (not that it really matters) - the studio in L.A. is most probably S.I.R. (Studio Instrument Rentals) not S.A.R. They have been around for decades and are still going strong today.
Yes, I think the S.A.R typo probably orginates from 'The Wild One', which refers to LA rehearsals at S.A.R. Studios, apparently in late '72. The Paul Trynka book, which unfortunately I don't have at the moment, says that the Stooges rehearsed at SIR in LA. 'The Wild One' also refers to 'Head On', 'Open Up And Bleed', 'Cock In My Pocket' and 'Heavy Liquid' as being written during rehearsals in LA, so my guess is that's why the 'Your Pretty Face...' CD notes attribute those tracks to being from LA sessions in '72, by putting two and two together, as it were.

Irrespective of whether any of these rehearsal recordings are from LA rather than Detroit, I don't think they can be from '72 as everything I've read seems to indicate that Bob Sheff joined in '73. What I'm not clear about is whether he joined before or after the Ford Auditorium gig in late March '73? If he joined after that gig, which at least some sources seem to suggest, then the February & March dates that are given for the 'Detroit Rehearsals' and the Morgan Sound Studios rehearsal must be wrong. If those dates are wrong then they also can't originate from the period after the Ford Auditorium gig when James was out of the band. Perhaps the Paul Trynka book sheds more light on the timeline of all of this...
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PostSubject: Re: The 'I Got a Right' sessions   Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:59 pm

Answering my own questions, I've checked Paul Trynka's book, and the timeline according to that is that Bob joined sometime in February '73 and rehearsed with the band at SIR in LA. By March 18 the band were back in Detroit and rehearsing at Morgan Sound Theater. Bob did play at the Ford Auditorium at end of March, which featured mostly Raw Power material.

This is very consistent with the purported dates of the rehearsal tapes, but suggests that the February ones could have been recorded in LA at SIR, while the March ones may all come from Morgan Sound Theater in Detroit. I think the March ones (including the definite Morgan Sound Theater rehearsal on Heavy Liquid) also differ from the February ones in predominantly featuring material likely to be included in the live set, which is consistent with the band rehearsing for the imminent Ford Auditorium gig.
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