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 Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP

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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:27 am

I don't know here this might have been discussed but I think the issue has been raised in these pages in the recent past.

I asked Sundazed what was used to master their LP release of Raw Power. Tim Livingston kindly replied, stating that they used the original analogue masters. So should sound good if Funhouse is anything to go by.
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unheard78



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:03 pm

I like the sound of the Sundazed vinyl, but JP also played me a Canadian pressing which blew it away. Anyway, the Sundazed version is nice and clear, but a little quiet compared to other pressings I've heard.
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:49 am

unheard78 wrote:
I like the sound of the Sundazed vinyl, but JP also played me a Canadian pressing which blew it away. Anyway, the Sundazed version is nice and clear, but a little quiet compared to other pressings I've heard.

Yeah, well I'm looking to replace my worn out Uk copy. I get the idea that the Canadian pressing is pretty scarce. I'd like to hear a good rip of it, though.

unheard78 wrote:
I like the sound of the Sundazed vinyl, but JP also played me a Canadian pressing which blew it away. Anyway, the Sundazed version is nice and clear, but a little quiet compared to other pressings I've heard.

I can now agree that the Canadian version is very good. Thanks to jp. As I said with that LP you almost don't need the CD remaster.
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modernlover

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Maybe PBTHAL (Google him NOW) will oblige us one day - he's done a Canadian Funhouse which I will be downloading soon...
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:09 am

modernlover wrote:
Maybe PBTHAL (Google him NOW) will oblige us one day - he's done a Canadian Funhouse which I will be downloading soon...

ModernLover. Thanks for the heads up on this. I'm investigating 'Dirt' from the LP rip as we speak. It appears to sound very excellent.

Btw, is there something special about Canadians and their record pressings?

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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:42 pm

There's nothing different from the Canadian pressing and the other 1970 pressings. There was only one Canadian pressing of "Fun House" so that's how you know it's from 1970 which is why the sound quality is superior. I own a copy myself and the sound is great.
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Petrie Terrace
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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:05 pm

Can't say about other things, but Canadian Garage singles, mid-sixties, tend to be much better mastered/pressed than their equivalent US issues. Clearer, sharper, and often quite a bit louder.

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jpstooges

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:34 pm

Sorry if this is off-topic:
G, F#, E wrote:
There's nothing different from the Canadian pressing and the other 1970 pressings.
There is. French original pressing of Fun House sounds pretty bad compared to others.

G, F#, E wrote:
There was only one Canadian pressing of "Fun House" so that's how you know it's from 1970.
There was probably several Canadian (re)issues of Funhouse. Here's one from the mid/late 80's:

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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:04 pm

jpstooges wrote:
Sorry if this is off-topic:
G, F#, E wrote:
There's nothing different from the Canadian pressing and the other 1970 pressings.
There is. French original pressing of Fun House sounds pretty bad compared to others.

G, F#, E wrote:
There was only one Canadian pressing of "Fun House" so that's how you know it's from 1970.
There was probably several Canadian (re)issues of Funhouse. Here's one from the mid/late 80's:


Thanks for that, I only knew of one pressing. That makes alot more sense.
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unheard78



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:05 pm

One from your own collection JP? How does that eighties pressing of Fun House compare to that version PBThal posted? Regardless, that Canadian pressing of Raw Power you've got is super nice, as is that promo of the S/T. Both of those are so much better than the Sundazed pressings, and the Sundazed pressings aren't bad either. Actually, the S/T album Sundazed pressing sounds really good, but your promo is simply sharper and clearer.
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jpstooges

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:54 pm

unheard78 wrote:
One from your own collection JP? How does that eighties pressing of Fun House compare to that version PBThal posted? Regardless, that Canadian pressing of Raw Power you've got is super nice, as is that promo of the S/T. Both of those are so much better than the Sundazed pressings, and the Sundazed pressings aren't bad either. Actually, the S/T album Sundazed pressing sounds really good, but your promo is simply sharper and clearer.
(really off-topic, but anyway) This Fun House Canadian reissue from the mid/late 80's is fine...I mean it sounds OK.
PBThal rips are incredibly quiet, it's hard to believe the music is ripped from a vinyl, BUT I prefer the Rhino 2005 2LP set version compared to his original Canadian pressing rip. It has fuller sound (sharper highs). PBThal equipment is probably much better than mine (I mean more expensive), though I'm using the same tube-based phono stage, so the best would be a rip of Rhino 2LP set done by him. But I'll keep searching for the "perfect" funhouse vinyl pressing. A friend of mine owns a white-label promo US of Fun House, I'll give it a spin soon.
Here's a A/B sample of PBThal rip followed by Rhino version. Differences are subtle.
http://rapidshare.com/files/410643797/01_Down_On_The_Street_PBThal_rip_then_Rhino_2005.flac.html
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:34 am

jpstooges wrote:
unheard78 wrote:
One from your own collection JP? How does that eighties pressing of Fun House compare to that version PBThal posted? Regardless, that Canadian pressing of Raw Power you've got is super nice, as is that promo of the S/T. Both of those are so much better than the Sundazed pressings, and the Sundazed pressings aren't bad either. Actually, the S/T album Sundazed pressing sounds really good, but your promo is simply sharper and clearer.
(really off-topic, but anyway) This Fun House Canadian reissue from the mid/late 80's is fine...I mean it sounds OK.
PBThal rips are incredibly quiet, it's hard to believe the music is ripped from a vinyl, BUT I prefer the Rhino 2005 2LP set version compared to his original Canadian pressing rip. It has fuller sound (sharper highs). PBThal equipment is probably much better than mine (I mean more expensive), though I'm using the same tube-based phono stage, so the best would be a rip of Rhino 2LP set done by him. But I'll keep searching for the "perfect" funhouse vinyl pressing. A friend of mine owns a white-label promo US of Fun House, I'll give it a spin soon.
Here's a A/B sample of PBThal rip followed by Rhino version. Differences are subtle.
http://rapidshare.com/files/410643797/01_Down_On_The_Street_PBThal_rip_then_Rhino_2005.flac.html

[Even further off topic]

pbthal has a VPI Scout and a very unusual linear tracking tone arm. That could make a difference.

He also uses iZotope RX to get rid of surface noise and to dither and resample down to redbook audio (from what i gather).

I think the difference between the PBThal rip and the Rhino 2005 is quite pronounced on headphones but we wont know whether that is due to the pressing or not as they were ripped on different systems.

Another thing that always bugs me and I dont know how much difference it makes is that a rhino 2005 LP may have been cut from a digital master. I think many modern re-issue LPs are. At least Sundazed used the analogue tapes to master from. Now I'd be interested to hear that compared to the Rhino.

I've got rips of the Sundazed and now the Canadian Elektra Funhouse. The Sundazed is clearer and wider (stereo) and tighter. The Canadian is a little bigger and more rhythmic but also slightly grittier on the guitar. And any differences could easily be down to equipment as much as pressing. They are both from the analogue masters and both sound fantastic. I'd be happy to own and listen to either!
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unheard78



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:27 pm

I use iZotope RX for declicking but that's really about it. As for resampling, I do most of my work in SoundForge. I see a lot of people mentioning using iZotope for dithering and resampling but does it really make a difference which program one uses for that?

His VPI Scout and Terminator setup are ridiculously high quality and definitely make a difference, although I'd love to do an A/B between a rip of one of his records and the same record on a less enhanced setup. I have a Technics Quartz SL-QD33 Direct Drive Automatic turntable and run it through a BBE Phono Preamp into a Creative X-FI USB 24 bit soundcard. For the most part I'm really happy with the quality of my transfers but I wish there was a better way to get rid of surface noise. That said, iZotope RX does a really good job of declicking tracks.
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:26 am

unheard78 wrote:
I use iZotope RX for declicking but that's really about it. As for resampling, I do most of my work in SoundForge. I see a lot of people mentioning using iZotope for dithering and resampling but does it really make a difference which program one uses for that?

The iZotrope can also be used to get rid of vinyl surface noise. I have't tried the declick yet as I'm still doing the by hand. I've used it to dither and resample and although I haven't done an A/B it does feature the ability to fine tune the way those processes work. I guess if someone were to understand the techniques then that could make a difference in theory.


quote="unheard78"]His VPI Scout and Terminator setup are ridiculously high quality and definitely make a difference, although I'd love to do an A/B between a rip of one of his records and the same record on a less enhanced setup. I have a Technics Quartz SL-QD33 Direct Drive Automatic turntable and run it through a BBE Phono Preamp into a Creative X-FI USB 24 bit soundcard. For the most part I'm really happy with the quality of my transfers but I wish there was a better way to get rid of surface noise. That said, iZotope RX does a really good job of declicking tracks.[[/quote]

I think the pleasure is in being able to make your own rips. Mine are far from perfect but I enjoy listening to them although I am trying to find ways of improving them.

It's hard top do any A/Bs but i'm on the lookout for others who have ripped the same LPs I have. I suspect that the VPI's platter creates a bigger bass response when I listen to the Canadian rip. The Sundazed rip is done on an equally expensive desk a Music Hall MMF 9.1. I think that the bass is more controlled sounding than the VPI but as I say it could be down to other factors. But my Rega Planar3 does not get the same bass extension as the VPI I suspect due to the platter.
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mr.datsun

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:26 am

unheard78 wrote:
I use iZotope RX for declicking but that's really about it. As for resampling, I do most of my work in SoundForge. I see a lot of people mentioning using iZotope for dithering and resampling but does it really make a difference which program one uses for that?

The iZotrope can also be used to get rid of vinyl surface noise. I have't tried the declick yet as I'm still doing it by hand apart from a trial with deClick. I've used iZotrope to dither and resample and although I haven't done an A/B it does feature the ability to fine tune the way those processes work. I guess if someone were to understand the techniques then that could make a difference in theory. I just tried it because Dr.Robert does it that way and I was curious to see if it made things sound smoother at the top end.


unheard78 wrote:
His VPI Scout and Terminator setup are ridiculously high quality and definitely make a difference, although I'd love to do an A/B between a rip of one of his records and the same record on a less enhanced setup. I have a Technics Quartz SL-QD33 Direct Drive Automatic turntable and run it through a BBE Phono Preamp into a Creative X-FI USB 24 bit soundcard. For the most part I'm really happy with the quality of my transfers but I wish there was a better way to get rid of surface noise. That said, iZotope RX does a really good job of declicking tracks.[

I think the pleasure is in being able to make your own rips. Mine are far from perfect but I enjoy listening to them although I am trying to find ways of improving them.

It's hard top do any A/Bs but i'm on the lookout for others who have ripped the same LPs I have. I suspect that the VPI's platter creates a bigger bass response when I listen to the Canadian rip. The Sundazed rip is done on an equally expensive desk a Music Hall MMF 9.1. I think that the bass is more controlled sounding than the VPI but as I say it could be down to other factors. But my Rega Planar3 does not get the same bass extension as the VPI I suspect due to the platter.
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usernaim



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:02 pm

Hey everyone, longtime audiophile and Stooges-lover.

The Fun House Canadian is a good pressing but there exist five different pressings. The original has the big red E on the label. There are two butterfly labels, one with the bold W Warner Bros. logo, one without. Then there is a late 70s red label small E and the one pictured above. Thing is, I believe all have the same matrix number, i.e. each pressing is from the same mastering done in 1970.

I'll listen again but I thought my French was also very good.

U.S. copies exist in the original Butterfly (Canada didn't switch to the Butterfly as early as the US), the small E red label ca. 1977, and the red and black. The latter has a different matrix number to the original and while good is a little harsher sounding than the original. Haven't heard the red E.
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jpstooges

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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:18 pm

usernaim wrote:
Hey everyone, longtime audiophile and Stooges-lover.

The Fun House Canadian is a good pressing but there exist five different pressings. The original has the big red E on the label.
I'm really curious about this one. Could you please post a picture? And BTW, welcome to the forum!
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usernaim



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:30 am

I don't have one but it is listed on discogs (release 3324887, not allowed to post links yet).

I believe I have seen one on ebay though I never saved a photo. And I believe someone on a listserv I was once on had one.
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neven



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:34 pm

Hey,I also have a vpi scout,but not a canadian funhouse.The german tan label also sounds good,Also have the french(tan) and us originals.Funhouse just sounds GREAT!!!!
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usernaim



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PostSubject: Re: Raw Power mastering on Sundazed LP   Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:51 pm

Did some comparisons today.

US original is best. It has the most pop, is clearest, smoothest, tightest and biggest sounding (the guitar is all over the place, waves and waves of sound).
Canadian is excellent, a little richer sounding and slightly more top end.
French is also excellent, but maybe a little less so.
US reissue, red and black label (but same master as small E red label, I believe) has the same dynamic pop as the original, but is tizzier on top and has less bass. The bass is actually very very articulate, it's just not as full. I think it's from the master tapes.

Didn't listen to Sundazed or the Elektra more recent Elektra repress though I doubt they'd exceed the other versions.

It's an excellent recording period.
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