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 Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970

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pernil



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PostSubject: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:18 pm

Any help with info and details (or connecting gigs with photos) much appreciated. Another priority is trying to pinpoint the set list development. When did they introduce "I Got A Right"? Other new tunes, "Big Time Bum"? Which James songs were brought into the set (December 1970)? Etc. etc. You get the picture! Grateful for any insights! Per


Friday, 14 August 1970: College Stadium Boston, MA
First gig with the band for Zeke and Billy.

Saturday, 15 August 1970: Venue unknown, Asbury Park, NJ
The Stooges warmed up for the three-night stand at Ungano’s in New York with a gig in Asbury Park, NJ.

Tuesday-Thursday, 18-20 August 1970: Ungano’s, New York City, NY
Although two sets (at 10:00 pm and 12:00 pm) were advertised, the Stooges only played one set each night. Lots of gig reviews and personal reports exist.

Friday, 4 September 1970: Eastown Theater, Detroit, MI
The headliner was Fleetwood Mac.

Saturday, 5 September 1970: U of D Stadium, Detroit, MI
Also on the bill were Catmother, Frost, and Bob Seger. The Fifth Estate listed the Stooges as playing at the Eastown Theater on 5 September (with Fleetwood Mac and Springwell), which clashes with this show. It is believed that the U of D Stadium show was played, but this needs verification.

Friday, 11 September 1970: Recreation Center, Wheaton, MD
Wheaton is a suburb of Washington DC. The Recreation Center holds a few hundred people.

Saturday, 12 September 1970: Venue unknown, Falls Church, VA
The gig was held in a community centre. No other details are known.

September or October 1970: Action House, Long Island, NY
The band drew a small crowd of 30-40 people to this show.

Sunday, 20 September 1970: Windsor Arena, Windsor, Canada
No details are known about this show. This was likely Steve’s last gig with the band, as he was not part of the band on 10 October in Birmingham. When Steve left, they dropped “Fun House” and “LA Blues”. Most of the other Fun House songs seem to have been retained for most of 1970. “I Got A Right” was introduced sometime in the autumn 1970.

Saturday, 10 October 1970: Palladium, Birmingham, MI
Also on the bill were Bob Seger System and Julius Victor. It is noteworthy that the Stooges were billed as “Iggy and the Stooges”.

Friday, 23 October 1970: Electric Circus, New York City, NY
The Stooges returned to New York for this gig, at the Electric Circus, a 600-capacity psychedelic-influenced rock club in the middle of St. Mark’s Place and the East Village. Gig review in Changes.

Saturday, 31 October 1970: The Ritz Theater, New York City, NY
Flying home after the Electric Circus gig, the Stooges returned just days later for a Halloween concert at the Ritz Theater. This was Billy’s last performance with the band; he was not part of the subsequent Detroit gigs. The Ritz Theater was a large, converted movie palace that tried a few rock concerts. The MC5 opened for the Stooges, one of the few times the Stooges headlined over MC5, a clear indication of the Stooges’ New York status. The Stooges’ Ritz performance ended prematurely after only 10 minutes when hostile audience members began throwing eggs at the stage. Iggy was hit by several eggs and promptly walked off the stage halfway through their second number, “1970.” Gig review in Changes.

Friday-Saturday, 13-14 November 1970: Eastown Theater, Detroit, MI
No details are known.

Sunday, 15 November 1970: Zim’s Wagon Shed, Old, Fremont, OH
The bill also featured Up, SRC and Brownsville Station.

November 1970: WF Herman Secondary School, Windsor, Canada
No details are known.

Sunday, 22 November 1970: The Borderline, Detroit, MI
Another gig listing has the Stooges appearing at The Frut Palace, Detroit, on 22 November. It is uncertain which gig was played.

Saturday, 5 December 1970: High School, Farmington, MI
This is believed to have been James Williamson’s first gig with the band. The band now was Iggy, Ron, Scott, Zeke, and James. More than likely, James brought with him several of his songs, including “You Don’t Want My Name”.

Saturday, 12 December 1970: Palladium, Birmingham, MI
Also on the bill were Catfish and Jam Band.

December 1970: Monroe Community College, Rochester, NY
Reviewed in a GQ feature.

Difficult to date 1970: Gilligan’s, Buffalo, NY
No details are known.
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:22 pm

Should add that "Dirt" and "1970" were played at The Ritz, 31 Oct. The GQ report on Monroe Community College, Rochester, Dec 1970, mentions "Dirt" and "Loose" (no further titles mentioned). There are many gaps to fill concerning the set list in the second half of 1970! Per
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weed_killer

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:48 pm

pernil wrote:

November 1970: WF Herman Secondary School, Windsor, Canada
No details are known.

Saturday, 5 December 1970: High School, Farmington, MI
This is believed to have been James Williamson’s first gig with the band. The band now was Iggy, Ron, Scott, Zeke, and James. More than likely, James brought with him several of his songs, including “You Don’t Want My Name”.

The Stooges played at High Schools? Shocked
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:49 pm

Per, could James Williamson have joined the band a little earlier? These B&W photos with JW I think are from the November 1970 gig at WF Herman Secondary School, Windsor, Canada (taken from the school yearbook). Trailerborn I think you got these scans what were your thoughts again on the date? I think we were debating 70 or 71 but a time reference on these is that they show Iggy wearing the same extended black dog collar thing he was wearing toward the end of 1970 - I don't think he wore this in '71 - (cf bottom colour photo that has Zeke and Billy Cheatham on stage)







Last edited by mc on Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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sweet_sixteen



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:08 pm

It makes sense that James would have joined the band in Novemeber 1970 right after Bill Cheatham was let go, it doesn't make sense to get rid of the second guitar player without having a ready replacement...
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totenkopf

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:51 am

Yikes----YOU think there's logic to The Stooges!!! Ron Asheton on his own was one awesome guitarist, with Billy leaving what gap in the music do you think would happen, forget about it , until James came on board, Ron could handle everything. Listen to Ron's guitar playing on the Live at Ungano's CD---Only Ron is playing, no Billy on that recording, how fucking great is that sound!!
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:48 am

I agree that James might have joined earlier than early December. It's quite possible and seems likely. Is there ANY chance of finding out when that WF Herman Secondary School, Windsor, Canada gig took place? That would be helpful. Another key question is to what extent they changed their set when James came into the band?

I wonder who took those photos. We're looking for photos for the book I'm doing with Natalie on the Stooges' live work.

Per
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Iguanas

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:03 pm

MC, if I remember correctly, Natalie wrote that on this photo is Billy Cheatham, not James.
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:34 pm

Iguanas wrote:
MC, if I remember correctly, Natalie wrote that on this photo is Billy Cheatham, not James.

Surely not, that's definitely James.
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:12 pm

Absolutely, it must be James! They are the only shots I've ever seen of this late 1970 line-up.

In this day and age of Internet, isn't it possible to track down someone who attended? We've gotten reports for the book from quite a few "obscure" gigs, although most are from the more well-known shows in NY, LA, etc.

Per
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trailerborn

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:14 pm

I think December 1970 is a reasonable date for the Herman show, assuming that 12/5 was Williamsons first gig. I'd think that Williamson would certainly remember his first gig, if not the others. The only person I've ever spoken to who remembers the show says it was sometime over the winter and they played Funhouse stuff. This person was a friends father who attended Herman in the 70's. He died a few years back, so I can't get more details.

I checked the 70/71 Herman yearbook but couldn't find photo credits. I also spent a few evenings going through the old Windsor Star (newspaper) archives on microfiche at a local library, but came up with nothing but ads for church socials and a blinding migrane. As I recall, a few weeks worth of entertainment listings were cropped-off (events were listed at the extreme edge of the page), so I might have missed a listing that way. I checked November, December/70 & early January '71 before retiring in a cloud of sizzling synapes.

An enterprising researcher might want to dig into the CKLW 'Big 8' audio archives of the period. A rock concert would most likely be there as opposed to the newpaper listings that seemed sporadic at best.

A phone call to the W. F. Herman library might be in order - I can PM a phone # if you can't find it. A brief explanation that you are trying to put a book together might get a librarian to go through some of the earlier/later yearbooks for photo credits. These are excitable high school students after all and one might be willing to do some legwork for you. If any names pop up I could make a few local calls if they are still in the area.

Local legend (I have no way of confirming this) has it that Iggy was travelling to LaSalle, Ontario pretty regularly during this period to hook up with a sympathetic doctor with access to pharmaceutical-grade goodies. (LaSalle is a small neighbouring town, basically a suburb of Windsor). Iggy claimed ignorance of any Windsor gigs until the Herman show was pointed out to him by a friend of mine during a local radio interview (89X FM) around the time of 'the Weirdness' release. In a print interview a few months later, Iggy claimed that he evidently played a show in "Windsor, Canada", but doesn't remember it. (I lost a zillion bookmarks in a computer crash around that time, and can't locate the print interview - reason #5000 I'd make a shitty researcher). If the LaSalle legends are true, I can see why Iggy would want to scrub memories of Windsor from his brain.

Wish I could help more, but I'm in Michigan during the work-week and can't do any poking around in Windsor during school hours, unfortunately.

Also: Nitebob conclusively identified the guitarist as Williamson and the roadie as Eric Haddix. Haddix is mentioned in this article and might be worth seeking out:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/soundboard/2008/07/the-baseball-pr.html

Until I see otherwise, these are the EARLIEST photos of Williamson with the Stooges.



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blackout88

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Like i mentioned in a previous thread, there is an interview SOMEWHERE on this forum where James discusses his first joining the band. He mentions not being able to remember much but that even though he was out of the group by the time he joined, he did in fact play a few shows with Steve returning on sax. He describes assisting in the writing process but not necessarily fully writing the new songs and by the end of the '71 period having in the region of 6-8 of his own in the set. He also mention playing a limited amount of Funhouse material.

In regards to songs at this time; for anyone who has not been involved in a band, you must understand that outside of the live set-list, there are almost always half a dozen or so 'works in progress' or finished songs that aren't fully tight. Its highly possible the stooges were playing embryonic version of songs that later appeared in '72 or even further. Compare the similarities between 'Fresh Rag for example and 'Consolation Prizes', or the rumor that 'Im Sick of You' was played at this time under the title 'Goodbye Betsy'.

Also, has there ever been even a rumor or an indication from anywhere that there is a rehearsal tape or something similar from the '71 period?
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:25 pm

I'm sure they had works in progress, but not THAT many. This seems evident from reading Natalie's "Popped", for example. See how fixed the 1971 set was. More than anything, I think Iggy tried out different lyrics. For example, "Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell" evolved into "1970", but my guess is that the earlier version primarily differed in terms of lyrics. See also all the different lyrics tried out during the FH sessions. "Down On The Street" began as "Down On The Beach", but I'm assuming it was basically the same song. It doesn't seem odd if "I'm Sick Of You" began as "Goodbye Betsy". Etc etc. Still, I don't think we should exaggerate the number of different songs they played in 1969-71. Iggy has said that the band began rehearsing less and less and that's where many song ideas would emerge, see all the 1973 rehearsals - then they really rehearsed a lot and came up w. loads of songs. Just my two-cents.

It's a real challenge (but very interesting) to try to piece together when new songs might have turned up, such as "I Got A Right" and "Big Time Bum". Which of the 1971 songs were played in 1970 (aside from "IGAR")? Please continue to discuss and speculate!

Per
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adams66



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:38 pm

The 1971 dates occurred after a few months totally off the road, so they had plenty of time to adopt James' new compositions then..
By the end of 1970 they must have been tiring of playing the same Fun House songs over and over, and once Mackay had gone the more jazzy freeblowing side of the band seems to dry up a bit too, in favour of more riff based material in 1971. But even so, in the dying days of 1970 I would seriously doubt if anything other than "IGAR" entered the live set. Do we have proof that "Big Time Bum" was definitely played in 1970?
James may well have brought some song ideas to the table but I'd be surprised if the Stooges started playing Williamson's songs as soon as he joined. From what we know they don't seem like a band that embraced change very rapidly! And rehearsing, in late 1970, doesn't seem to have been much of a priority...
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:07 pm

Natalie does mention that the Stooges are "doing 2 new songs.... Neither of them are named yet, but both are wonderful". I think she is referring to Rochester, NY, Dec 1970, when she met James for the first time. She says that they are opening the set with one of the new tunes - does sound like "IGAR".

She also mentioned something about "I Don't Care About Your Private Parts", but it's not clear whether this was a song she had heard in rehearsal. The title has been mentioned elsewhere ("Private Parts"). I'll ask her!

Isn't there some information about Matt Gimmick's covers of "You Don't Want My Name" and "Fresh Rag" originating from hearing them in a 1970 show?


Per
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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:24 pm

Per
The Matt Gimmick covers of "You Don't Want my Name" and 'Fresh Rag" originate from early 1971. I have spoken with two members of Matt Gimmick and they both said they got their hands on a recording of the April 24, 1971 gig and used to listen to it all the time. They were also at the gig. As for the tape of the gig they don't know what happened to it.
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:59 pm

Great, then that's cleared up re. Matt Gimmick's source.

"Big Time Bum" was mentioned as being slated for a single in early 1971, which probably means it was one of the new tunes introduced in late 1970.

I'm not totally clear on the titles or which song is which in the 1971 set, aside from the three first numbers. My impression is that "Who Do You Love?" is a cover/re-working, despite the fact that Iggy calls out various titles. That leaves the two last numbers - I'm still not clear on which one is which. Can anyone enlighten me?

I'm also curious as to attempts to decipher lyrics of the 1971 tunes. Difficult, I know, as there are quite few sung lyrics on some of the gigs.

Per
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pernil



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:26 pm

Iggy mentions several titles in the I Need More book: "Private Parts", "Dog Food", "Egyptian Woman" and "Searching For Head". He suggests they were played at Ungano's when Steve was in the band, i.e. August 1970. Still, it's confusing as he mentions that he "pulled [his] pecker out", which happened during the February 1970 Ungano's gigs. Confusing? And were these songs/lyrics (except for "Egyptian Woman" or any of the alternate titles used for this) ever performed, rather than being rehearsed? No one seems to have heard "Dog Food" being played in 1969/70, but Iggy has stated more than once that it was played, probably post-Stooges/pre-FH.

Per

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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:03 pm

Per, glad that your work on Caught in the Act seems to be taking off in earnest. My feeling too is that if they played any of the 71 tunes late on in 70 it would only have been 1 or 2 in an embryonic form.

I have always thought Private Parts and Searching for Head were tunes that Scotty played with the Stooges roadies, and maybe Egyptian Woman was another title for Way Down in Egypt.
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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:10 am

"Big Time Bum" probably was played in late 1970 as it developed from "Way Down In Egypt" during the "L.A. Blues" freak out. Wouldn't be surprised if the song was played as a proper song by the December dates. I don't believe "Dog Food" was a Stooges song, perhaps the lyrics have some basis from then but only Iggy has ever claimed this and most of it was in interviews around the release of "Soldier", most likely just publicity.
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Real O Mind
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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:32 pm

mc wrote:

"The long ride from Detroit must have made Iggy sick because he was foaming at the mouth and nose all night."

Innocent times!
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adams66



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm

I Need More is a wonderful read, and you can really imagine Iggy dictating these stories, but I've always taken much of that book with a large pinch of salt when it comes to historical accuracy. I don't doubt that Iggy is trying to recount the early days properly, more that he's been known to exaggerate, and anyway, how reliable is his memory of those days when much of the intervening period was spent in something of a haze...
Despite what Iggy says we've no proof of "Dog Food" actually being played by the Stooges, though I wouldn't be surprised if Iggy had written it in 1970. The references to Betsey would date it to this period. But all those titles that he mentions - are they genuine songs, or are they just alternative titles for the big LA Blues style freakout? I mean Rhino have dignified this improv with two made up titles, which seem unlikely to have been genuine titles for this piece. Iggy and the band could easily have referred to these sorts of improvisations with rough titles like "Searching For Head" as Iggy explored various lyric ideas. And weren't some of these titles used for the apparently disgustingly rude songs that Scott and the roadies played at soundchecks?
Cheers,
Richard
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comaman

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:01 pm

I might have one for you:

1970-09-19 - The Warehouse, New Orleans, LA
The Stooges
MC-5
Alice Cooper



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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:08 pm

OMG what a line up! WOOOOOOOOOO . Stooches, Alice and LITTLE RICHARD on one bill What a Face
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comaman

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PostSubject: Re: Tracking down the post-Goose Lake Stooges gigs of 1970   Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:20 pm

zickafuce wrote:
OMG what a line up! WOOOOOOOOOO . Stooches, Alice and LITTLE RICHARD on one bill What a Face

Eeeeh, Little Richard was on a week later. The ad is for two shows, sept 19 and sept 26...
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