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marpop



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Age : 48
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PostSubject: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:12 pm

hi!
i'm new here,
can anyone tell me the recording date of that above-mentioned title,
know 77 but need venue and date also
thanx in advance

marzio sunny
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:26 pm

It was recorded on the 21st and 22nd March 1977 at the Agora Ballroom, Cleveland.

Little has been revealed about which night each track comes from (to my knowledge)...the FM broadcast (and earlier bootleg LP, both long before the official release) featured a different version of "Gimme Danger" (discernible from the start of the keyboard solo). As far as I can tell, I think all the other performances are the same, I've tried comparisons before and not been able to find any other notable differences.
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:29 pm

Oh and the FM broadcast featured China Girl, and longer gaps between the tracks...the edits make sense actually, make the show more exciting I guess.
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marpop



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:34 pm

very thanx,
what cd you think is better of these show?
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adams66



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:03 pm

The versions of "TV Eye" and "Funtime" on the official TV Eye 1977 Live come from this gig too.
It's not clear which date it is, 21st or 22nd, but whichever it is, the cracking version of "Dirt" on TV Eye 1977 Live is from the other night.
I wonder who, if anyone, actually has the master tapes these days?
Cheers,
Richard
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:43 pm

Someone out there has them...

OK which CD...the issues since around 2004 or so have been *slightly* clearer than the earlier issues.

There's really not much in it...I appreciate both clarity (ie from a "remastered" point of view) but also depth of sound and warmth which older CDs tend to have more of...and...I still couldn't tell much between the older and newer versions. I went for one of the newer ones in the end due to the *slight* extra clarity.

The difference is so minor I'd say as long as it's not the white slipcase version (which looks lovely but wasn't well pressed), get whatever is going for the best price.

As for the mastertapes...well someone behind these multiple issues has them.

Both pleasingly (from a collector/trainspotter point of view) and frustratingly the Iggy Pop "Live" issue (blue background, Iggy topless in blue jean) definitely is from a master or different tape as it has the pre-amble before "I Wanna be Your Dog" (ie the "now we're gonna perform"..."What in the World!" shouted by an audience member...Bowie laughs in the background...). This was missing from all the other official releases of this gig, but it was on the original broadcast and the bootleg. Yet this CD is clearly derived from official tapes as it's much higher quality than the bootleg and the FM tape that barely circulates. It's the same quality as the other official releases...but the tracks are in jumbled order!!

I subsequently bought one of the latest issues - Iggy and Ziggy - Cleveland 77 - to see if the 'normal' version was now expanded in any way. Not necessarily that likely as China Girl is still not included, annoyingly.

It isn't...so all the official issues bar "Iggy Pop - Live" are similar, with just minor mastering quality issues depending on whether it was pressed in the late 90's (actually, I think there was a minor improvement in sound in the late 90's remaster?? we need a clear discography to help here!!), and the former has a snippet of song intro missing from the other issues!

See, as clear as mud.

Smile
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:25 am

I prefer "Wild Animal"


Last edited by gazatthebop on Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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marpop



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:28 am

days ago i download "mantra 1977" the vinil version(that with iggy&bvowie on cover)
very great sound i thought don't you think?
btw is it chicago.. right?

P.S.
can anyone point me a title for cd version
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:26 am

No.

Not great sound on the vinyl version of the Mantra Studios, nor on the Faces Shine Vol 1 set either.

There have been torrents of this which sound ten times better.

Smile

It was recorded at the Mantra Studios Chicago, allegedly on the 28 March 1977 as a pre-gig rehearsal / run-through?

Could be the first time an entire gig rehearsal before the actual gig has been recorded and broadcast on FM radio? Smile
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gazatthebop

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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:34 am

bowie can be annoying!
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marpop



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:59 pm

gazatthebop wrote:
bowie can be annoying!

bowie is too much dominant at various 1977show(i.e. cleveland) i think also.. What a Face
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neven



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:16 pm

I wish rca would reissue an expanded tv eye live cd box with all gigs complete.
why not??
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:39 am

neven wrote:
I wish rca would reissue an expanded tv eye live cd box with all gigs complete.
why not??

Great idea Smile

Why not?

Because it's a great idea Sad
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Donald



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Location : Chelmsford, UK
Registration date : 2007-11-22

PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:43 pm

Stranger09 wrote:
neven wrote:
I wish rca would reissue an expanded tv eye live cd box with all gigs complete.
why not??

Great idea Smile

Why not?

Because it's a great idea Sad

A better idea would be to reissue The Idiot and Lust For Life with extra tracks, if any exist. People might buy those, they wouldn't sell many TV Eye Live box sets.

By the way, this thread belongs in the Gimme Danger section.
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:07 am

I doubt anyone would argue that they *shouldn't* do expanded versions of The Idiot and Lust for Life, but not sure any genuine outtakes would exist?

Also re TV Eye, yes it may not be a big seller, but many many Iggy live albums have been released, personally I'd like to see RCA try expanding and releasing it, regardless of the 'profitability'.

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Donald



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:45 am

RCA (or whoever owns it now) won't do it if they don't think it will be profitable. Come to think of it though they could use those gigs on expanded versions of the other albums.
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adams66



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Surely a remastered Idiot plus the Cleveland 21 or 22/03/77 would make a decent pairing, as would Lust For Life and the complete October 1977 show used on TV Eye Live. That would surely make for a bigger selling point on each of the albums.
I can't believe that these two albums have never been re-mastered and decently reissued yet.
Of course any out-takes would also be most welcome, but I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers,
Richard
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:49 pm

The mastering isn't bad on them, though I've read good comments about the mastering of some of the tracks on the Iggy Best of 2CD. (not got around to doing an A-B comparison myself yet).

That said a live album on each would make sense : particularly if it contained unissued material.

China Girl from 21/22.03.77 definitely exists in usable / 'remasterable' quality (ie if the mastertapes have been lost, and that would hardly be a first with Iggy material), and a different live take of Gimme Danger exists in similar form too. It's a shame that Some Weird Sin and Tonight - highly likely played at that gig - probably don't survive. The full intro to I wanna Be Your Dog (the "now we're gonna perform" "What in the World!") bit from that gig would be nice from a completist angle.

The October show from TV Eye live would be a good idea too, as would be nice photos from the era...I saw one from 18.11.77 online on someone's flickr account which was good.
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:39 pm

I found my files of the original FM tape today...I had a quick listen.

The only particular differences are more 'hum' (well reduced on the official releases), Iggy saying 'thank you' after Raw Power, more of a wait before and after Raw Power, 'Search and Destroy' and 'Sister Midnight' shouted in the background by a band member, and the presence of China Girl.

So really the existing release(s) of the concert are complete enough bar China Girl, and the missing announcement for I Wanna Be Your Dog (the calling for What in the World wouldn't necessarily endear it to Iggy for inclusion, and it's hardly an essential piece of listening, an announcement Smile).
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:38 pm

I've taken time out to compare some of the various versions of this gig in more detail :

Suck on This LP - muffled compared to all other issues of this. Was "the" version for years, now long outclassed.

Dutch FM broadcast - the same as above but has China Girl. The version I have runs about 3.5-5% too slow (repairable in Audacity), needs the right channel dropped down and slightly de-hissed, but otherwise is very good indeed, and much better quality than the above bootleg (although possibly the source for it, back in tape copying days).

Sister Midnight - Gold Disc (Cleopatra label, basically a reissue of "Wild Animal"). Interestingly (to me anyway) very slightly slower than the SOT bootleg and the "Iggy Pop - Live" CD below. Like the Wild Animal CD, the thing that always stuck out like a sore thumb for me was the start of the keyboard solo of Gimme Danger, a pained and emphatic (with the lyrics) sounding lament which was always one of the highlights of the bootleg versions I'd listened to over the years. Careful comparison with the other sources here has revealed it is *not* necessarily another take, but one of two things -
- a slightly edited version, studio trickery being used to mask the tape damage at that point (more apparent on the CD below at this point, the start of the Gimme Danger solo).
- a slightly edited version with part of the other night recorded added in. It's long been suggested both the 21st and 22nd March dates were recorded. However this rumour doesn't seem substantiated to me - or at least no tape evidence may survive - as the *only* difference in the actual songs (bar the addition of China Girl) that I have found is the start of this keyboard solo here. So if both nights were recorded, I've not heard any evidence of it on any of these, or anything I've heard to date.

Iggy Pop - Live (Laserlight CD). This includes I Wanna Be Your Dog with the full spoken intro, and, thankfully the full version of Gimme Danger, without the edit / studio repair at the start of the keyboard solo. Certiainly tape damage is more audible at this point without the edit, which does seem to explain why this bit was fiddled about with on the more normal official releases of this gig. I say "more normal" because on this CD the track order is jumbled up.

Each issue of this seems to contain slightly longer gaps between songs, and the slightest of "dialogue" which is sometimes absent from the authorised CDs (Wild Animal / Sister Midnight). However given this "dialogue" extends to simply a band member calling out a song title in the background, or Iggy uttering "alrigghht" (once) and "eurgh", really only the most trainspotterish of fans would be bothered about editing such things into a master version. Even I wouldn't bother personally Smile

The Iggy Pop-Live CD is slightly 'hot' on the levels but I didn't hear any clipping, and to me at less than a fiver (UK), and with the fuller IWBYD and the full Gimme Danger (and a great cover to boot) it's a bargain.

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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:38 pm

Actually, despite being recorded at high levels, *and* in the wrong order the "Iggy Pop-Live" CD is arguably clearer than any of the releases to date - and not in a bad way either (clarity is not always a good thing, as sometimes mixes with greater clarity sacrifice 'feel' and power). I've just reduced the level, and done a comparison to the Sister Midnight CD.

On the one hand I'm sort of pleased, on the other I feel like burying my head in sand or something. It's sunny outside, and as I work part time at the moment, I could've been walking out in the sun before work. Instead I've missed that, and have more faffing about to do with CDs to get them as I want later!

Why can't life be simple? Smile


Last edited by Stranger09 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marpop



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:17 pm

detail appreciated
very thanx guy!!
Very Happy
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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:08 pm

You want detail, well there's more where that came from! Smile

No seriously...I almost panicked as I remembered after work "didn't I get one of those newer releases of this show?"

I'd put it off a bit thru being tight for cash, but I had got "Iggy & Ziggy live in Cleveland".

Well anyone who has not got it is not missing much in my opinion.

I think it's a very slightly 'remastered' version of the earlier issues, but not in a good way. Sounds 'crunchy' and a little brittle compared to my now newly loved Iggy Pop - Live CD.

As it is, it's pretty similar to the Sister Midnight (and therefore previous "Wild Animal") CD.

It seems to come down to this -

all official releases bar "Iggy Pop-Live" miss the spoken intro from I Wanna Be Your Dog and edit the start of the keyboard solo on Gimme Danger due to a little tape damage (an acceptable amount, in my opinion - I actually found raising the volume level and the treble through High Pass in Audacity did a much better job of masking / dealing with said damage, which is pretty much a little dropout).

all official releases bar "Iggy Pop - Live" are probably NR'd. The Iggy Pop-Live, while mastered a bit loudly, seems to use original tapes...there is *very slightly* more hiss, but a lovely warmth to the sound, and the loudness has done no harm. Indeed, if anything, the other CD's of this, despite being recorded at lower / normal levels, have a comparitively brittle sound that one would normally associate with 'loud' CDs. The music seems to 'breathe' more on the Iggy Pop-Live CD, just a shame about the jumbled up order of the songs.

I'm pretty sure the Iggy Pop-Live CD does miss off the spoken concert intro too, but anyone who takes this concert seriously as a listening experience, is likely do do their own re-sequenced version anyway, leaving possibilities for tacking on the concert intro, China Girl, and even Iggy's "Alrigght" and "eurgh!" announcements if need be.

Smile
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comaman

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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:43 pm

Stranger, is this the CD you're referring to?

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Stranger09



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PostSubject: Re: wild animal boot   Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:04 pm

Yes, that's the one.
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