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 Purple Haze

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Leiria



Number of posts : 1
Registration date : 2015-07-12

PostSubject: Purple Haze   Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:33 pm

Ive searched the forum and found nothing on it. Does anybody know anything about this (year,lineup,etc.)?

What do you think? I love it
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adams66



Number of posts : 910
Age : 50
Location : Essex, UK
Registration date : 2007-05-09

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:32 am

Well, for a start, it's not the Stooges.

The basic track - Iggy's vocals and the guitar - was recorded sometime in 1973. It's not clear who the guitarist is, but it's not James Williamson. There's a whole bunch of relatively poorly recorded tracks like this, just Iggy and a guitarist (and occasionally a very primitive drum machine).

However, the version you've posted has had some recent overdubs - the bass and drums - which, if I remember rightly, was done by some German producers for a semi official album called More Power. This album used some of these Iggy / guitarist track and some of the 1973 Stooges rehearsal tracks and mangled them with modern drum tracks and beefed up bass. Some of these sound utterly dreadful, some not quite so bad. And many have escaped to muddy the situation further onto more semi official compilations...

The odd thing is though, some of these remixed/overdubbed tracks sound noticeably better and clearer than the 1973 tracks that have circulated for years. Did these producers have access to lower generation tapes? Regardless, I'd have much preferred cleaned up versions of the original tapes rather than the bastardised versions we have here.
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neven



Number of posts : 518
Registration date : 2008-06-07

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:34 am

Totally agree Richard.
Why not release those tapes together with all the Detroit rehearsals, from the masters in a cd box?
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adams66



Number of posts : 910
Age : 50
Location : Essex, UK
Registration date : 2007-05-09

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:51 pm

I think part of the problem is that no-one seems to know where the masters, or even the lowest generation copies actually are.

The first almost official release of this material was on Rubber Legs way back in the 1980s, and then there were a number of subsequent Revenge releases. But since then it's become clear that virtually every release since has simply copied the tracks off previous issues.
Regardless of however many releases mentioning remastering, or being better quality than other releases, they all seem to have originated at much the same source, which clearly isn't the master tapes. It's all too easy these days to issue yet another CD with songs copied off a previous CD.

I wonder if James Williamson or the Asheton estate might actually know where the real tapes are? It seems unlikely. I doubt Iggy does, nor does he seem to be bothered.

But I absolutely agree, a decently mastered, complete and unedited set of these 1973 rehearsals at the correct speeds, straight transfers in the best sound possible (which we know still won't be great, but what the fuck), and with minimal monkeying around by modern engineers - that's like the Holy Grail for Stooges fans isn't it? It's gotta be worth releasing, surely?

Cheers,
Richard
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StoogesFan



Number of posts : 103
Registration date : 2009-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:25 pm

Hi Guys,

I have talked about these tracks several times on this board, but for the benefit of anyone who may not be aware I will post here again.

If the master tapes from these sessions exist anywhere they will be in the vaults of Bomp Records. Greg Shaw did a deal with James Williamson to provide unreleased recordings, and James duly delivered what Greg described as "a large cache" of tapes to Bomp. Most of these were unlabeled. A few tracks such as 'Tight Pants', 'Scene of the Crime' etc (plus some material from 'Kill City') were considered worthy of release, but the rest remained in the vaults until December 1977 when the track referred to as 'Jesus Loves The Stooges' was released on the EP of the same name. This track is actually two different tracks spliced together, and the second half has vocals overdubbed by Iggy at some unknown point.

Things went quiet until the late 1980's when the "Studio Rehearsals '73-'74" bootleg appeared. All the tracks on this release were at the correct speed and were high enough in sound quality to have been taken either from the master tapes or a first-generation source. I am reasonably certain these tracks did not originate from Bomp, and we must therefore assume copies of these tapes must have been circulated elsewhere. Revenge Records obtained the tracks and released them officially (semi-officially?) but the quality was noticeably lower and the pitch was wrong. Greg Shaw decided to release the tracks himself (seeing that he did have rights over the material) and chose to dub the material directly from the Revenge release as it saved him the bother of trawling through his archive.

In early 1989 a vinyl single was issued free with 'Spiral Scratch' magazine containing 'She Creatures of Hollywood Hills' and 'Untitled' (Til The End of the Night) from the same sessions. Both were unreleased up until that point. I supplied these tracks from first-generation tapes which had been provided to me by Greg Shaw.

I agree that a definitive release is needed. If the tracks from the bootleg, the Spiral Scratch single and carefully remastered material from some of the official releases were put together we would then have the best possible collection. I would also be happy to provide my first generation copies for such a project (although there are few complete songs). Perhaps Easy Action could be persuaded?
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sizeable bulge



Number of posts : 72
Registration date : 2010-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:46 pm

StoogesFan wrote:
Hi Guys,

If the master tapes from these sessions exist anywhere they will be in the vaults of Bomp Records. Greg Shaw did a deal with James Williamson to provide unreleased recordings, and James duly delivered what Greg described as "a large cache" of tapes to Bomp.

The legend is that when James went to cash the cheque he received from Bomp for the stash of tapes he delivered, the cheque bounced. I don't know if it's true or not, but the legend has persisted over the years. And as they say, where there is smoke there is fire. James is no dummy and it would have been foolish of him to have delivered a complete set of tapes before proof of payment had been established. That better explains why Bomp had to resort to needle drops of previously released Stooges material rather than having been too "lazy" to search their archive.They simply didn't have it. James wisely held it back.
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sizeable bulge



Number of posts : 72
Registration date : 2010-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:37 pm

adams66 wrote:
Well, for a start, it's not the Stooges.

The basic track - Iggy's vocals and the guitar - was recorded sometime in 1973. It's not clear who the guitarist is, but it's not James Williamson. There's a whole bunch of relatively poorly recorded tracks like this, just Iggy and a guitarist (and occasionally a very primitive drum machine).

However, the version you've posted has had some recent overdubs - the bass and drums - which, if I remember rightly, was done by some German producers for a semi official album called More Power. This album used some of these Iggy / guitarist track and some of the 1973 Stooges rehearsal tracks and mangled them with modern drum tracks and beefed up bass. Some of these sound utterly dreadful, some not quite so bad.

We would all *like* to believe that this is semi-official. I think the sad truth is that this is all completely official. Most artists if you overdubbed their music without permission and then put it out would have an f' ing fit. You would be sued and your product would be withdrawn from the marketplace. You would have nothing to gain which is why I can't recall another instance of this happening. The only way you would go to the trouble of all of this is knowing you had the green light to do so. Which is sadly what I think has happened here.

That said, as much as I loath what they did and wish they hadn't, I'll give credit where credit is due. They did improve the music. If you asked a bunch of hard rock fans which music they preferred, the undubbed versions or the overdubbed versions, I would think about 80% would prefer the overdubbed versions. But as they say hindsight is 20/20. Would sales of More Power been markedly different had they left the tracks alone? Sadly I think not. Which is what is so lamentable here.


Last edited by sizeable bulge on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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StoogesFan



Number of posts : 103
Registration date : 2009-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:33 pm

sizeable bulge wrote:


The legend is that when James went to cash the cheque he received from Bomp for the stash of tapes he delivered, the cheque bounced. I don't know if it's true or not, but the legend has persisted over the years. And as they say, where there is smoke there is fire. James is no dummy and it would have been foolish of him to have delivered a complete set of tapes before proof of payment had been established. That better explains why Bomp had to resort to needle drops of previously released Stooges material rather than having been too "lazy" to search their archive.They simply didn't have it. James wisely held it back.

Bomp have never released the 'Rubber Legs' tracks in the best quality or the correct pitch, so I would be prepared to accept these may not have been included on the tapes provided by James. However, I don't see why James would have purposely held them back. These rehearsal tapes were obviously not recorded with an official release in mind, so why would he have held some of these back while at the same time providing release-quality material such as 'Sick of You' and the 'Kill City' stuff?
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sizeable bulge



Number of posts : 72
Registration date : 2010-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:25 am

Agreed, most rehearsal studio recordings were never meant for public consumption. Listen to the Faces 1969 rehearsal demos ( on the Faces box set Five Guys Walk Into A Bar) or the Roky Erickson rehearsal studio tape on Don't Knock The Rok. Definitely not meant for official release. James acted in good faith. He was prepared to hand over quality studio recordings to Bomp. However he was not prepared to hand over EVERYTHING at once and be screwed over in the process. He understood the intrinsic value of the Stooges rehearsal recordings from 1973  and how that magic could never be recreated again, and it wasn't going to be blindly handed over in one fell swoop.
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davidh

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Number of posts : 56
Registration date : 2010-04-17

PostSubject: Re: Purple Haze   Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:10 pm

nm
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